I am an American and I agree with Zoe that not all Americans want to blow any country off the planet. I respect other cultures, it makes this world of ours so much richer. No, America is not perfect, we have done things that we are not proud of, but hopefully we are learning from those mistakes. What country has been perfect? I also beleive that the twisted torrists that find it somehow pleasing to murder people must be dealt with. I will support my country, I will trust my elected officials to TRY and make the right decisions. Financially, I don't have much to contribute, I will not stop my spending, I have given my lunch money for the week to the Red Cross...I have taken my spare change to the Firemans widows and orphans fund...I WILL CONTINUE TO TEACH MY CHILDREN RESPECT FOR ALL OTHER CULTURES....regardless race, religion, creed, sex or any other differences. I will also pray to a power greater than myself.

I am looking for my uncle Michael Diehl. He worked for Fiduciary Trust International on the 90th floor of the South Tower. If you have any information about him please contact me at 813-792-0894. My thoughts and prayers go out to all that have lost someone in this terrible tragedy. Thank you for all your help.

I FEEL WE SHOULD ALL COME TOGETHER AFTER ALL OF THIS.ALSO WE SHOULDNT BLAME A WHOLE COUNTRY CAUSE OF ONE MAN.HE IS VERY SMART.EVERYONE IS SAYING THAT HE IS CRAZY BUT HE ISNT.I GIVE MY PRAYERS TO THE MISSING THE DEAD AND ALL OF THE FAMILIES AFFECTED BY THIS.GOD BLESS YOU

I FEEL WE SHOULD ALL COME TOGETHER AFTER ALL OF THIS.ALSO WE SHOULDNT BLAME A WHOLE COUNTRY CAUSE OF ONE MAN.HE IS VERY SMART.EVERYONE IS SAYING THAT HE IS CRAZY BUT HE ISNT.I GIVE MY PRAYERS TO THE MISSING THE DEAD AND ALL OF THE FAMILIES AFFECTED BY THIS.GOD BLESS YOU

To Justthefacts,
I am glad to see we agree on context but we definitely still disagree on political ethics and morality as well as historical interpretation.

You agree that Sadam's regime was being supported by Washington yet you disagree that this can be perceived as a green light. Then why are we now after individuals and governments who helped to fund and assist the terrorist that decimated NY and DC? Weren't they only assisting a group that was defending their ideals as per your interpretation of our role in Iran and then Iraq? The ideal of a world free from satanic intervention.

You and many have used the cold war as a bulwark of rationalisation against which no argument of ethics or morality can penetrate vis-a-vis the usurping and overturning of any government, plebiscite or not, who lean in any way to the left. These actions, by America, usually meant replacing the one party, one ruler regimes with, in the name of democracy and freedom, another one party, one ruler regime. Who were, in many cases, more brutal and ruthless than the regime they replaced. This suggest, to me and many around the world, that it was not the peoples of these states we were interested in, but rather our own, sometimes myopic, interest. Where and how does one make friends and influence people in this fashion? I imagine we weren't out to make friends though. It seems more like intimidation to me.

I guess, by your estimation, The cold war was a great reason for the US government to recruit freedom fighters like Osama Bin Laden or assist fundamentalist groups like the Mujahadeen. Why are they now in such a rush to get out of the bed? The wicked socialist that ruled previously were such an awful contrast to the present government of Afghanistan.

The Iraqi invasion, as I remember it, was due to all those who benefitted from the Iran-Iraq melee, backing away from Iraq after the war. Iraq's economy was deeply scarred and was in deep need of help and all, including Kuwait, snubbed their nose at them. Now this does not excuse such an action, as similar reasoning doesn't excuse the third reich, but it explains it. As does the fact that there have been many instances, on both cold war sides, where an uncontrollable client was manifested on the world.


As to Salah ad-Din Yusuf A.K.A. "Saladin" you're still out of context. In allowing those Christians in Constantinople, as well Jerusalem, to continue worshipping as they pleased, he was continuing the tradition started by the first Muslim conquerors of Jerusalem. This was a precedent for those times, as the conqueror usually dictated to the conquered. He was by all means a brilliant and erudite general but he was not doing anything ground breaking in this respect. As to him spitting in the face of these terrorist, it's possible but definitely an assumption. As is my assumption that, as someone of Iraqui and Kurdish background, he would most likely spit in our American faces.

I am hoping we can continue this discussion so we may we all see the light one day. What ever the light is.

May peace and understanding rule.

I received this email today and would like to share it with you , as well as post my personal opinion on this matter:


Ok this is a forward, but it made some sense. So I
> am passing it on to a
> few people.
>
> Love always
> Madhumita
>
> Dear Friends,
> The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim
> Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. He is
> also one of the most brilliant people I know in this
> life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I
> listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the
> whole
> mess we are in.
> -Gary T.
>
>
> Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread:
>
> I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing
> Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on
> KGO
> Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean
> killing
> innocent people, people who had nothing to do with
> this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept
> collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes
> later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we
> "have the belly to do what must be done."
>
> And I thought about the issues being raised
> especially
> hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though
> I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track
> of
> what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who
> will listen how it all looks from where I'm
> standing.
>
> I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin
> Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these
> people
> were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I
> agree
> that something must be done about those monsters.
>
> But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan.
> They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The
> Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took
> over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political
> criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban,think
> Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And
> when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think
> "the
> Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only
> that
> the Afghan people had nothing to do with this
> atrocity. They were the first victims of the
> perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come
> in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the
> rats
> nest of international thugs holed up in their
> country.
>
> Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and
> overthrow
> the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved,
> exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few
> years
> ago, the United Nations estimated that there are
> 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country
> with no economy, no food. There are millions of
> widows. And the Taliban has been burying these
> widows
> alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with
> land
> mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets.
> These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people
> have not overthrown the Taliban.
>
> We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan
> back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done.
> The Soviets took care of it already. Make the
> Afghans
> suffer? They're already suffering. Level their
> houses?Done. Turn their schools into piles of
> rubble?
> Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy
> their
> infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and
> health
> care? Too late. Someone already did all that.
>
> New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier
> bombs.
> Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In
> today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they
> have the means to move around. They'd slip away and
> hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those
> disabled
> orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even
> have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping
> bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the
> criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it
> would only be making common cause with the
> Taliban--by
> raping once again the people they've been raping all
> this time.
>
> So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let
> me
> now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way
> to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground
> troops.
> When people speak of "having the belly to do what
> needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of
> having
> the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the
> belly
> to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent
> people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's
> actually on the table is Americans dying. And not
> just
> because some Americans would die fighting their way
> through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's
> much
> bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to
> Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would
> they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan
> would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations
> just
> stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting
> with
> a world war between Islam and the West.
>
> And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's
> exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read
> his speeches and statements. It's all right there.
> He
> really believes Islam would beat the west. It might
> seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize
> the
> world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion
> soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those
> lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to
> lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of
> view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west
> would
> win, whatever that would mean, but the war would
> last
> for years and millions would die, not just theirs
> but
> ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does.
> Anyone else?
>
> Tamim Ansary
>
>
> "...Never sleep, cause' sleep is the cousin of
> death..."
> ~(NAS)


MY THOUGHTS:::
It does make sense, but what about the innocent Americans going to work everyday at the WTC? What about the innocent victims of the hijacked planes? What about the hundreds of "heroes" who ran to the tragic scene and lost their lives in an attempt to save others( firefighters, medical personel, cops..) What about the innocent bystanders who never made it after the collapse? And how about the ones who DID make it, they have no job to return to, must find another way to feed their children... and those who lost their homes.. Further more, what about the the rest of us who have lost someone? Things will never be the same again.
The email spoke of the people of Afghan. I truly feel for their pain and suffering, but their government has been conquered by evil. And the evil resides in Afghanistan. They may hate the United States for whatever reason but it definitely isn't for personal reasons towards the American people lost. I really don't think bin Laden and the others on the list took into consideration what we Americans will be suffering. I believe in an eye for an eye.
The terrorists have unspokenly declared war on the United States. We have lost thousands and thousands of innocent people. If the terrorists are hiding out in Afghan then thats what we have to go after. What else can be done? The email spoke of Islam versus the West if the US moves forward with military action... I beleive that is going to happen regardless. The Pakistanian government claims to be on our side but how are we going to trust them if they kiss the ground bin Laden walks on?
Yes it does make sense that bin Laden does want to see a war between Islam and the West but if nothing is done by the US, I truly feel that is going to happen regardless. SO what are the United States waiting for--are we just going to sit back and let our free country's innocent civilians die without retaliation and wait until the Islamic govt powers up to surprise us with a WAR or are we going to do what needs to be done-see that justice is served, retaliation is accomplished and get the terrorists for their wrongdoing?!?
~K.Wu

justthefacts, you make some good points here and there... but as for the gassing of Kurds in Iraq, never forget the three big words: "WITH OUR SUPPORT"

Let's talk about Islam and the outcry from ordinary Muslims, including clerics, political leaders, and ordinary folks, all trying to distance themselves from bin Laden and his ilk. I have no doubt that they are sincere in their expressions of horror and disgust, and in their protestations that Islam advocates a pure and loving lifestyle. However, this loving and peaceful religion promotes the opression of women, and indeed the mutilation and murder of women. Islamic governments implement justice systems where people are publicly executed to pacify fervoured worshippers. A great many Islamic states are incredibly wealthy, but their citizens remain uneducated and impoverished. They can be flogged in public if convicted of drinking alcohol, but their rulers fly to neighboring countries and sit in the sun, drinking beer.
These are the images presented to the western world, and while they may be misleading to some extent, they nevertheless have some basis in truth. Want the west to think better of you? Take care of your people. Educate them, feed and clothe them. Remove priests from government.
And no, I'm not a redneck Southern Baptist or anything like that. I have similar views on all fundamentalist religious types, Christian, Jewish, Sikh, etc., etc. It's 2001, we have spacecraft flying around, portable computers, we can transplant human organs, the list goes on and on. The writings of holy men who lived thousands of years ago, and who thought the world ended about 30 miles away, have very little place in today's world. In my opinion, anyway.

What were you thinking????????
Did you think that you would get us to apologize for being defenders of freedom?
Did you think that we would turn from God and worship your Allah?
Maybe you thought that we would shrink away in fear of you and your rag tag band of knife wielding thugs.
You poor, twisted, simple minded fool. You would have been safer if you had poked a sleeping lion with a sharp stick.
We were a nation sitting in our pajamas, on our couch, watching our leaders bicker between political parties about a poor economy.
If you really wanted to hurt us, you should have left us alone. Instead, you sucker punched us.
What you managed to do is to get us off of our butts and on our feet. You can bet that we are awake now, AND WE ARE PISSED!
If you were trying to divide us, you have been a collosal failure. I can think of nothing that would have rallied us together faster or stronger than to murder our wives, husbands, sons and daughters.
If you had any inclination as to who we were, you would have known that we come from every walk of life. Our ability to whip your ass comes on more levels than you can imagine.
What you managed to do, is to get us to put aside our differences and stand as one. Because of you, American flags are off the store shelves and flying proudly from countless flag poles and car antennas. You have resurected a patriotism that has not been seen in our country in years.
A warrior would stand and fight, so where are you? You are just another yappy dog with his tail between his legs.
Make no mistake, we will we will hunt you to the very gates of hell. There isn't one safe place on God's green earth for you to hide.
Please enjoy these few days while we collect ourselves and count the ways that we will chew you up.
I really have to ask, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING???"

To Whom it May Concern:

Our Nation has been damaged by your inhumane actions. You, who we don't even know, you have destroyed our property, you have destroyed our security, you have destroyed the lives of our husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, our sisters and brothers. You have even destroyed our children. You who we've never even met. So let us introduce ourselves. We are a peaceful nation, we believe in a respect of opinions of mankind, we believe in our creator, we believe we have certain unalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We believe in 'We the People of the United States of America.' We are the sleeping giant that you have awoken. Its true, you who we've never met, have destroyed a part of us, but you haven't destroyed our spirit, because we were made in the U.S.A. and that comes with a guarantee: We guarantee that when we meet you face-to-face we are going to kick your ass.
Signed,

We the People of the United States of America