TO DUSKY USA.

You won't like this responce at all, but if TV was not there i would have known nothing about what is going on in my country.As i still try to see it as a whole, cause of the respect i try to keep having for all the people that breath the same air, speak the same language and so on.

Emina

To Emina

Bringing the two rather contradictory things together is now the most urgent issue of the world diplomacy. It takes a most patient realist to realize that arresting either Milo or Billy is absolutely improbable nowadays. We'll have to put up with what's already been done by both sides in order to prevent it from unfolding which might cause manslaughter, RAPE and VIOLENCE far greater than we're dealing with now. Of course, we should stop it as soon as possible. Neither the Serb police nor NATO forces are allowed to commit crimes against HUMANITY. The same must be applied to Hungarian customs police who delayed Russian humanitarian help trucks at Ukrain-Hungary border. The excuse was ridiculous: they said the trucks could be used as military vehicles. How 'bout bikes, then? One has a hand ready for shooting while riding them. It's just one of the insanities of the smaller states which desperately hope to join NATO as soon as possiple and at all costs. Actually, I'm expecting Jack's response. Emina, thanks for your support, at least partly.

I wholeheartedly agree with the bombing of the propaganda sources. Maybe without their constant input the Serbians will start using their own brain instead of repeating what they are told. War sucks! There is nothing any of us can do about it.We can sign all the agreements we want to and nothing will change.FACT:Milosevic is a fascist criminal.FACT:Nato will attack him until he is destroyed.FACT:There will be no cease fire, until he is destroyed. Russia will do nothing to help Serbia, they couldn't defeat Afghanistan even. Don't give me this "the USA couldn't beat Vietnam" crap either. We could have if we didn't just quit, but it was an unpopular war, so we quit. This one will not just stop. Not until Milo is totally defeated.

To Guido
<<<Maybe without their constant input the Serbians will start using their own brain instead of repeating what they are told.<<<

Watch yourself and try to find some brains within your head. You're no less propaganda-stricken than the Serbs!

<<<There is nothing any of us can do about it<<<

What are you doing here then? Pouring hatred on everyone? Go and draw some more bombs on your girl-friend's ...

<<<FACT:Milosevic is a fascist criminal.<<<

And you're the world's means of punishment!

<<<FACT:Nato will attack him until he is destroyed.<<<

Checked up and good to go, Commander!
Don't forget to enlist yourself.

<<<Russia will do nothing to help Serbia, they couldn't defeat Afghanistan even.Don't give me this "the USA couldn't beat Vietnam" crap either. We could have if we didn't just quit, but it was an unpopular war, so we quit.<<<

Oh, the war with Afghanistan was so popular in Russia! It's still popular. And if you failed your history: it was a guerilla war - the one that can't be won.

To Guido.

If enough people raise their voice the least WE achieve is a better communication. Who knows everyone who now violates human rights will listen in the future.
I know its a long shot, but think about it ...for just one single moment?

Emina

Post Message

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Back to: Disaster Message Service: Yugoslavia: Post Message

---

Old Messages April 26 - 01:45 am

Should ground troops be sent ? April 26 - 04:34 am

Should Kosovo be independent? April 18 - 10:20 pm

Should the captured U.S. soldiers face military court in Yugoslavia April 22 - 12:36 am

Russian response April 27 - 06:42 am

Is Kosovo another Vietnam? April 22 - 10:24 pm

Flood of Refugees? April 22 - 02:31 am

Archive through April 24, 1999 April 24 - 09:19 am

Archive through April 25, 1999 April 25 - 11:51 am

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By Emina on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 02:46 pm:
TO GUIDO

They did already make 2 attemts to bomb Milo.
One on the TV station he was just broadcasting in.
One on his precious house.As far as i know they hit the bedroom.
Source RFE

Emina

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By Emina on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 02:53 pm:
TO GUIDO.

The e mail message was that for me, cause it would be really strange as i get mail from there almost everyday?

Emina

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By Emina on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 03:00 pm:
TO PETE ROSE.

I agree fulley, but one thing if i look at myself what am i suppost to do when some person throws some really mean insults at me?
Turn my cheek?
No pete sorry can't do that anymore as much as i dont like to be angry i am, and a person needs to know my limits

Emina

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By JACK LONDON on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 03:02 pm:
Pete,

I agree with you.
Personal attacks should stop.

I propose we try to keep this healthy
By agreeing to stop for the moment
with discussion of the items on which we DIFFER.

We should first try and find common ground,
let's start with emphasizing
the things on which we AGREE.

Here are three simple items we can start with.
These are at the heart of the crisis,
and if you noticed, a source of grave concern
to everybody on the board :
1. GENOCIDE
2. DEPORTATION
3. RAPE

Some on the Board have made it abundantly clear
that they detest and condemn all the above,
REGARDLESS of the historical causes,
or any political or economic "justification".

Guido, Emina, Josue, Salvatore,
Zoya, Rosie, Sue and others have repeatedly,
and without reservation posted their position.
Everybody knows my position.

Maybe Maja, Nick, Basil and Alexei
will also agree with the following statement.
If they do, then we can have a fresh start.

DRAFT #1:

"Genocide, Deportation and Rape by any party
are violations of basic Human Rights and Dignity
that CANNOT be justified by historical events,
political or economic objectives and/or strategies."


The "but" and "if" can come later.
Let's first agree on this very basic ideal.

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By Jack on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 03:10 pm:
Emina,
I'm going to the beach now (Kayak day today).
I'll mail between 22:00 - 23:00 your time.
Sunce !

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By Emina on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 03:18 pm:
To JACK.
Ok no problem have fun.
You said yesterday you wanted to talk to me can you tell me in your mail what it was.

Emina

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By Guido on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 03:21 pm:
JACK,
I will "sign" it until I lose my temper again, but I will try to remain calm.

EMINA,
It must be something wrong with my server and not your address. I e-mailed you "Charlie" when this first started at your personal e-mail address but I cleared my computer and I don't want to publish my e-mail, because there are some real maniacs out there, not just all mouth like I am.

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By Guido on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 03:28 pm:
The following is the official purpose of this board. I am suprised they don't kick us all out!

The Disaster Message Service was developed to allow people to stay in-touch during the troublesome times of disasters. This service will allow Information to flow between disaster victims and their family and friends.

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By Emina on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 06:42 pm:
TO XTO.

sorry to say, but i think you have to look up something?
Slovenia is a independant statedoes not and has never belonged to Serbia (not in their dreams).
And has already approved to help NATO by giving them permission to fly over.

Another advice don't ever underestamate that bastard Milosevic. Everyone underestamated Hitler too, and within notime there was ww2.

Emina

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By Emina on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 06:46 pm:
TO GUIDO.
Was my e mail still visible in my profile, cause i told them not to make it visible?

Emina

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By Guido on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 08:11 pm:
No Emina it is not there. When I e-mailed you weeks ago I just clicked on your name on the message board. I tried your web site e-mail address this time, but my messages won't go to there for some reason. I had nothing to say really except I enjoy being a lunatic and don't need your help. I think you are very busy and there are many refugees that do need your help and I admire you for offering them free counseling. Thanks anyway!

---

By Ansen on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 02:48 am:
At DMS, we encourage an atmosphere of understanding and thoughtful debate. We understand that discussions can become heated, but remember to respect other DMS Board Members. Please abide by the following code of conduct that prohibits:

The use of profanity or obscenities.

A user engaging in personal attacks on others.

DMS participants straying off the discussion topic.

Using fake names or impersonating others. *


* Impersonating others is not permitted.
All users are tracked by IP address.


Thanks,
Ansen

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By lazy on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 03:08 am:
you look for trouble and you found it ,stop and look around you is you president telling you the truth

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By J on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 06:04 am:
WHO USED MY NICKNAME ?????

i dont even have the idea of what it's writing there !!!!!

Hey man, who ever you are, that is very HUGLY, using someother nickname to post you message.

I hope that was the last

Josué R.

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By Basil on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 06:38 am:
To Jack London and everyone

What you've proposed is the first really sensible deed of yours on this board. I wouldn't much like now to claim that I was the first to try to stop superficial representations of the others, regardless of their national and religious background.

As one of the most persistant and active part-takers and your, JACK, opponents, I'm willing to accept your draft (with "buts" to follow). I also swear I've never used fake names or impersonated others on this board for one simple reason: I am sincere in everything I post. And so I'm addressing the opposing party the following draft to sign:

2. No military alliance is allowed to impersonate the will of the United Nations unless officially empowered by the latter.

Again - with "buts" to follow!

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By Emina on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 08:08 am:
TO HERMINA.
First of all when you write please watch your spelling its horrible.
Second i think you are a male using a females name,otherwise you would no better.
I would not never wish this on anyone eventhough i am very angry.
One thing you wont get the better of me.
Dream on.

Emina

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By Emina on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 08:22 am:
TO SERGEY.

Sergey of course you can talk to me just tell me what you would like to know.And i will try to answer as objectively as i can.

Emina

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By Nick on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 08:34 am:
Five young boys were killed yesterday by a NATO cluster bomb in the village of Doganovic in Kosovo. These boys were named Edon(3 years old), Fisnik (9), Osman (13), Burim (14) and Vajdet (15).

Someone, somewhere will have to pay.

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By Guido on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 08:44 am:
Milosevic should pay, he started this crap!!

---

By TRUTH on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 08:51 am:
Serbian people take a few moments of pause, put emotion to one side and consider what follows.


You are a cultured and educated country and respected member of Europe. So why is it that the Nato members have taken military action against you? Countries like Britain and France do not go to war without good reason, already this century they have fought two terrible world wars for just reasons with great loss to themselves. Do you think they would embark on a third without similar good reasons? Think about Germany for a moment. This is the first time the German Military have gone into action since WWII. Why? Also think about the shame the German people have lived with for the last fifty years, a shame which will never be forgotten or forgiven. The shame of their compliance with the Holocaust, a second Holocaust is now happening in Europe. A Holocaust that the Serbian people is responsible for. There's no Nazi party in Yugoslavia, but there is a Hitler - Slobodan Milosevic - which only a few weeks ago many Serbians were calling "Slobo-saddam".

Do you really want the shame of Europe's second Holocaust on your heads?
Caused by a leader you didn't really want or respect?

Yes as far as Kosovo was concerned you believed the Albanians needed "a kick up the arse" but is Genocide really what you meant? The Serbian Ministry of Information is telling you that nothing like that is happening, it's all Western propaganda. And yes you believe this because you want to believe it. You are a cultured and educated country, you couldn't be party to such things - could you? But your Ministry of Information is manipulating you like Goebbels Propaganda Ministry manipulated the German people fifty years ago. Tens of thousands of Albanians are fleeing Kosovo. Most of them are women, children and the elderly. Where are all the men? They all tell consistent stories of brutality perpetrated by the Serbian Police. You are being told no such thing is happening, that they are fleeing the Nato bombs. Do you really believe this? If it's true why were all journalists expelled from Kosovo?

Surely if genocide isn't happening Milosevic's priority would be to prove
to the world the lies of the Western media?
Wouldn't he??

Is Milosevic's rhetoric truthful? You are being told about the continued downing of Nato aircraft and the capture of their pilots but where's the wreckage and where are the pilots? Nato has never lied about its losses in previous battles. It acknowledges the loss of one it's most expensive, technology advanced, planes the Stealth bomber. Nato hasn't begun this military action in the belief that its superior technology can destroy Serbia's military in a matter of days without loss to itself. They are well aware of the fighting abilities of the Serbian Military, which have proved their capabilities many times. Nato expects losses of both weaponry and men and is prepared for that.

If what you're military is doing in Kosovo in your name is right and correct, why isn't any other nation supporting you? Yes there is much anger at Nato's military action, which is totally understandable, violence is a terrible thing. But who actually supports what you are doing in Kosovo? Russia has been your ally for many years and condemns Nato force but do they support you? Do they send military to help you? No of course not and will not - they will not be party to Genocide.

For most of the people of Kosovo it's too late, the damage has already been done and the clock can't be turned back.


Only the Serbian people can stop Europe's second Holocaust or they can fight to the bitter end and take collective responsibility for it. No longer will Serbia be considered a cultured, educated nation, it'll only be remembered for murder, torture, rape and genocide, unless the people of Serbia do something now to stop it!

But I suppose this is more western propaganda? Isn't it??

---

By Guido on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 09:16 am:
I stole the above message by "TRUTH" from another web board. I hope it does not have the same nickname as someone on this board. If it does this message is a disclaimer for you and an apology.

---

By Nick on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 03:22 pm:
People writing stuff labelling it "Truth" have always made me suspicious, here is why:

"You are a cultured and educated country and respected member of Europe."

The last bit is false. Due to the demonisation campaign led by Western media and started by the UK media, nobody respects Serbs since the beginning of the 90's. I suppose respect was shown via imposing economical sanctions ?

"So why is it that the Nato members have taken military action against you? Countries like Britain and France do not go to war without good reason"

They did not go to war, they waged it forgotting to declare it because it was illegal, nuance. Some NATO nations sent a few troops and planes, but the bulk is from the US.

"already this century they have fought two terrible world wars for just reasons with great loss to themselves. Do you think they would
embark on a third without similar good reasons?"

I fail to see the point. France surrendered and cooperated with the Nazis through the Vichy regime, Britain fought when the Luftwaffe started bombarding their island. How is that similar to teaming up with Bill Clinton's administration just because he has a personal problem with Milosevic ?

"Why? Also think about the shame the German people have lived with for the last fifty years, a shame which will never be forgotten or forgiven. The shame of their compliance with the Holocaust, a
second Holocaust is now happening in Europe."

The holocaust is in the author's head. I will say it again, had Milosevic been interested in emulating the Nazis, he would certainly not have waited for NATO bombs and their drug-fuelled funds to their KLA friends. Did Milosevic kill 6 million Jews, more millions of Russians and several hundred thousands Serbs ? No, I don't think so.

"A Holocaust that the Serbian people is responsible for. There's no Nazi party in Yugoslavia, but there is a Hitler - Slobodan Milosevic - which only a few weeks ago many Serbians were calling "Slobo-saddam".

He is now blaming Serbian people, which confirms the effects of the satanisation process enginered about 10 years ago. Do Kosovars also indulge in killing ? What does the author know about Milosevic but the evening news ? Slobo-Saddam is an invention of the UK Government (Whitehall) around 30th March 1999 after alleged exchange of tactics between Hussein and Milosevic. Talk about assumptions.

"Do you really want the shame of Europe's second Holocaust on your heads? Caused by a leader you didn't really want or respect? "

A lot of people do not like Milosevic, but as far as respect, 99% of Serbia are pretty impressed with his guts at the moment !

"You are a cultured and educated country, you
couldn't be party to such things - could you?"

No. Nor could we pretend to go in for help and bomb those we pledged to help, drive them out of their homes and deny them airdropped supplies (Wesley Clark).

"But your Ministry of Information is manipulating you like Goebbels Propaganda Ministry manipulated the German people fifty years ago."

Indeed there is something quite disturbing about Yugoslav propaganda, given the vengeance with which NATO is targetting it, killing innocent journalists.

"Tens of thousands of Albanians are fleeing Kosovo."

NATO bombs + KLA enrolling Kosovars + KLA ambushing Serb police + Serbs shelling KLA.

"Most of them are women, children and the elderly. Where are all the men? They all tell consistent stories of brutality perpetrated by the
Serbian Police."

No, only the few NATO media interview say such things, although we hear what they want us to hear. But they need no worry: the US promised to take " a few thousands" to safety...

"why were all journalists expelled from Kosovo? "

It must be Brent Sadler's ghost I saw in Pristina showing craters created by cruise missiles.

"Surely if genocide isn't happening Milosevic's priority would be to prove to the world the lies of the Western media? Wouldn't he?? "

What I would like to know is what your Western media have proven so far. A bogus video, Madeleine Albright's friend presiding the joke of the War crimes court and two satellite pictures of KLA burial grounds, that's all you got ?

You are being told about the continued downing of Nato aircraft and the capture of their pilots but where's the wreckage and where are the pilots?"

Yes, over 60 planes and helicopters have been shot down so far and casualties are probably over one hundred. The pieces are difficult to collect from the montainous regions, and it is true that some of the NATO cowards did make it back to Bosnia where media such as the French paper "Le Parisien" spotted them. What will they tell the families ?

"Nato has never lied about its losses in previous battles."

The author will repeat that statement under oath if necessary.

"It acknowledges the loss of one it's most expensive, technology advanced, planes the Stealth bomber."

So advanced it was almost invisible. They had to acknowledge, the serial number and the pilot's name were on national Serbian TV. Has the author seen the pilot recently ?

"Nato hasn't begun this military action in the belief that its superior technology can destroy Serbia's military in a matter of days without loss
to itself."

That's exactly what they said ! Oops.

"They are well aware of the fighting abilities of the Serbian Military, which have proved their capabilities many times."

When did they prove it ? In the Gulf War ? In another life ?

"Nato expects losses of both weaponry and men and is prepared for that."

Yup, they are replacing their precious nuclear warheads with conventional ones. As far as ground troops, they expect to lose them so much that they keep dodging the subject. I wouldn't go on the ground if I were them. They're gonna have the surprise of a lifetime.

"If what you're military is doing in Kosovo in your name is right and correct, why isn't any other nation supporting you?"

Because the surrounding nations are brainwashed by NATO, as well as North Yugoslavia which saw millions of fliers dropped from a plane last week telling them that they will "starve to death" and that they were "deprived from the wealth of the West". Soon, the Serbian TV will be out and there goes the truth.

"Yes there is much anger at Nato's military action, which is totally understandable, violence is a terrible thing."

Cf demonstrations worldwide, given the babies NATO killed, the use of radioactive weaponry, the relentless crippling of utility targets.

"Russia has been your ally for many years and condemns Nato force but do they support you? Do they send military to help you? No of course not and will not"

Bluffing with war on the table is risky, the US will soon find out. Russia will never accept NATO's latest blackmail about oil embargo.

"For most of the people of Kosovo it's too late, the damage has already been done and the clock can't be turned back."

Right, if they go back you will bomb them and if they stay your help will make sure they starve or die of diseases for lack of proper sanitation.

"No longer will Serbia be considered a cultured, educated nation, it'll only be remembered for murder, torture, rape and genocide, unless the people of Serbia do something now to stop it!"

This is rich, coming from someone who support killing of civilians, to finally insult a noble race. Serbia's numerous attempts to receive observers and get back to the negotiations table have failed, for NATO (more specifically the US) will do anything to land their troops without losing credibility.

The US want their base in Kosovo, and if they can conquer the rest of Yugoslavia in the process that's even better. Dream on.

"But I suppose this is more western propaganda? Isn't it?? "

Yes it is.

---

By JACK LONDON on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 07:22 pm:
Basil,

Good start.
I'm glad we agree on the proposed first PRINCIPLE.

PRINCIPLE # 1 :
"Genocide, Deportation and Rape by any party
are violations of basic Human Rights and Dignity
that CANNOT be justified by historical events,
political or economic objectives and/or strategies."

We can thus consider this basic principle upheld by all,
save for three abstentions so far.


We can now move forward to the SECOND BASIC PRINCIPLE,
being the principle proposed by Basil :

PRINCIPLE # 2:
"No military alliance is allowed to impersonate the will of the United Nations unless officially empowered by the latter".

Basil, you have my vote on this. Absolutely.

I hope the others will sign on as well.

---

By JACK LONDON on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 08:13 pm:
Nick, how much time did YOU spend in Kosovo?
You say NATO is creating these stories.
With what authority do you say that?
What are your sources?

About the children killed in Doganovic.
It is a very sorry thing - I will never try to justify it.
But I tell you this....
hundreds - maybe thousands - of children have been killed by Serb Police and Army
WAY BEFORE NATO GOT INVOLVED.

If you don't believe it,
I'll give you (or anybody who asks)
the Web pages with the color photo's taken by UNHCR, Red Cross, etc., while they were still
allowed presence in Kosovo.

These children died in total anonimity.
YOUR SERBS WILL PAY FOR THIS.

---

By Nick on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 08:57 pm:
Bill Clitty has allegedly upped his financial request to the US Congress to $6.9 billion from $6 billion. Indeed He had not foreseen that one of his Apaches would hit a tree, catch fire and crash near Tirana.

If they can't even steer these things properly on safe grounds, Serbs will be making puzzles out of them in Kosovo...

I find this strange, the pilot had extensive training on Sega Megadrive Balkan Strike 99.

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By Guido on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 11:36 pm:
That is o.k. Nick. Tomorrow Milosevic will claim that the helicopter was shot down by Serbians, or Serb sympathizers, or maybe they had a bomb on board and Milo personally hit the destruct button! By the way, where did you hear about the crash? CNN? You can't trust western media sources you know. If the USA accidently lost a helicopter they would lie and say Serbians shot it down with a new particle beam weapon they had bought from the Alpha Centauri aliens they have an alliance with. So Milo probably did blow it up with a rock he threw at it! Yeah, that's it! You can't trust CNN or NATO dude, they would never admit Milo did it. So maybe he did!

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By Guido on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 12:02 am:
................LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
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......................LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
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...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
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.......................LOL LOL LOL
.........................LOL LOL
............................LOL
.............................L
.............................O
.............................L


......................YUGOSLAVIA..................

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By Guido on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 12:17 am:
.....BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM................

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By Alexei on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 05:21 am:
To all.
I haven't been around for a couple of days and I realize that things here change. At last...
As for me, I would really like to join the discussion of principles, proposed by Jack and Basil.
My position on GENOCIDE was posted in Russian Response.
I can't help subcscribing to both PRINCIPLES mentioned ( though in our situation these two do not go together very well). Here's another one. I would appreciate if it is considered:
PRINCIPLE #3 In case military operation is inevitable, only objects of MILITARY SIGNIFICANCE should be exposed to bombing, not civil ones.

---

By Basil on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 06:35 am:
To Jack London

I can't believe you're capable of reaching compromises! Fine, then. It's high time they were reached. It's my willingness to exchange ideas and find some common grounds that seems to have gained me a reputation of a Jew or a traitor among some of my compatriots who post here. Though you, Jack, can hardly "accuse" me of being a coward or the sort. I continue to state the importance of sense and responsibility in all the issues which might lead to a global war. It was the only reason which made me suggest that you and Maja be excluded (that is, not addressed). I'm against EXTREMISM in both words and actions.

So, we've voted in favour of the two basic principles. Great! Now it's high time to bring the above-mentioned buts about and to analyze the Balkan situation via their meaning.
So, according to
PRINCIPLE # 1 :
"Genocide, Deportation and Rape by any party
are violations of basic Human Rights and Dignity
that CANNOT be justified by historical events,
political or economic objectives and/or strategies.",

Milo is likely to be defined as a criminal guilty in human right violations and ethnic cleansing of the entrusted by the people of Yugoslavia territory. If the crime is found out and he's caught red-handed by the world community, it has to be stopped and all the guilty should face the international court. JUSTICE! But we've got something different. A NATO, being a military alliance, created in order to ensure DEFENCE of its members and officially declared this, launches a series of aggressive airstrikes on the territory of the independent Yugoslavia, which isn't even its member. The will and position of a number of states constituting the UN is being ignored. Thus, NATO have violated our second principle which reads:
PRINCIPLE # 2:
"No military alliance is allowed to impersonate the will of the United Nations unless officially empowered by the latter". As a result, all over the world there has arisen an tense atmosphere of mutual misunderstanding and even threat likely to transform into a global war. (I'm not kidding, WAR PREPARATION is in full progress in Russia). Hence - we've got a whole group of criminals, including Bill Clinton, Madelain Albright, Athony Blair and so on.
The abovementioned people violated the principles we agreed upon. Only this gives me the right to apply the word "criminal" to them. Expecting your comments, Jack...
P.S. Guido, this isn't a PM imbecile children drawing competition.

---

By Emina on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 07:24 am:
To BASIL,JACK And all others.

I sign this after very hard thinking about Basil's agreement.

Emina.

PS Basil still did not answer my question though.
Why did you throw the dirt in my face about being a refugee or not?

---

By Emina on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 07:28 am:
TO GUIDO.

I love that Star Trek thing you put in your mesage to Nick.
However i quess Milo doesn't know all that.Even worse would he be able to defent himself or his family if whoever would knock on his door at 4 in the night.............?........Quess not

Emina

---

By Emina on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 07:42 am:
TO ALEXEI.

Well if it were realalistic at all i would say yes.Ofcourse i dont want innocent people to die,But there has to be something else taken into concideration.
The nation that causes death and destuction should be punished and i agree its best by crippling there militairy targets, but militairy target are also the bridges their militairy vehicals cross them to get to other parts.It means roads so traveling becomes more difficult.

And last of all it has been proven allready in ww2 that factories who where used for the tabaco industry for example are very easy to rebuild and then used to make munition.

I agree Bombing a TV station normaly is not concidered right, but however when it was bombed Milosevic was infront of the camera talking to the people of Serbia to boost their moral. I personally think iys a pitty they did not have a direct hit on him, because then it would be all over now.

Can you agree on this Alexei?
What about all others? (sorry to many names to cover)

Emina

---

By Basil on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 07:44 am:
To Emina
I posted a message for you in "Russian response", where I'd found you addressing me with the question.

---

By Emina on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 07:51 am:
TO BASIL.

the interpatation of statement two by you, shuts one person out.
What about Milosevic
is he no criminal?
Yes as he lets his troops,Murder, Rape and kill, which we agreed on that this is a violation of human rights and dignaty.

How would you bring these two together?
Emina.

---

By Emina on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 07:54 am:
TO BASIL>
Thanks Basil.
well....anyway you know i am a genuin refugee now and i know what im talking about.So maybe it brought something good too.

A good discussion and an open mind.

Emina

---

By Emina on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 08:20 am:
TO DUSKY USA.

You won't like this responce at all, but if TV was not there i would have known nothing about what is going on in my country.As i still try to see it as a whole, cause of the respect i try to keep having for all the people that breath the same air, speak the same language and so on.

Emina

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By Basil on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 08:55 am:
To Emina

Bringing the two rather contradictory things together is now the most urgent issue of the world diplomacy. It takes a most patient realist to realize that arresting either Milo or Billy is absolutely improbable nowadays. We'll have to put up with what's already been done by both sides in order to prevent it from unfolding which might cause manslaughter, RAPE and VIOLENCE far greater than we're dealing with now. Of course, we should stop it as soon as possible. Neither the Serb police nor NATO forces are allowed to commit crimes against HUMANITY. The same must be applied to Hungarian customs police who delayed Russian humanitarian help trucks at Ukrain-Hungary border. The excuse was ridiculous: they said the trucks could be used as military vehicles. How 'bout bikes, then? One has a hand ready for shooting while riding them. It's just one of the insanities of the smaller states which desperately hope to join NATO as soon as possiple and at all costs. Actually, I'm expecting Jack's response. Emina, thanks for your support, at least partly.

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By Guido on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 08:57 am:
I wholeheartedly agree with the bombing of the propaganda sources. Maybe without their constant input the Serbians will start using their own brain instead of repeating what they are told. War sucks! There is nothing any of us can do about it.We can sign all the agreements we want to and nothing will change.FACT:Milosevic is a fascist criminal.FACT:Nato will attack him until he is destroyed.FACT:There will be no cease fire, until he is destroyed. Russia will do nothing to help Serbia, they couldn't defeat Afghanistan even. Don't give me this "the USA couldn't beat Vietnam" crap either. We could have if we didn't just quit, but it was an unpopular war, so we quit. This one will not just stop. Not until Milo is totally defeated.

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By Basil on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 09:52 am:
To Guido
<<<Maybe without their constant input the Serbians will start using their own brain instead of repeating what they are told.<<<

Watch yourself and try to find some brains within your head. You're no less propaganda-stricken than the Serbs!

<<<There is nothing any of us can do about it<<<

What are you doing here then? Pouring hatred on everyone? Go and draw some more bombs on your girl-friend's ...

<<<FACT:Milosevic is a fascist criminal.<<<

And you're the world's means of punishment!

<<<FACT:Nato will attack him until he is destroyed.<<<

Checked up and good to go, Commander!
Don't forget to enlist yourself.

<<<Russia will do nothing to help Serbia, they couldn't defeat Afghanistan even.Don't give me this "the USA couldn't beat Vietnam" crap either. We could have if we didn't just quit, but it was an unpopular war, so we quit.<<<

Oh, the war with Afghanistan was so popular in Russia! It's still popular. And if you failed your history: it was a guerilla war - the one that can't be won.

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By Emina on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 10:44 am:
To Guido.

If enough people raise their voice the least WE achieve is a better communication. Who knows everyone who now violates human rights will listen in the future.
I know its a long shot, but think about it ...for just one single moment.

Emina

To Jack:

You are a fuc*ing idiot. You may want to consider spending your free time with your thumb up your a**.

Basil

"Watch yourself and try to find some brains within your head. You're no less propaganda-stricken than the Serbs!"

Your fact that the USA is propaganda stricken like the Serbs is Serbian propaganda.

"What are you doing here then? Pouring hatred on everyone? Go and draw some more bombs on your girl-friend's ..."

What can we do about it Basil? Talk? Curse? Discuss? Draw pictures? None of this will stop one innocent person, Serb or Albanian, from dying in a war that was instigated to stop Milosevics ethnic cleansing campaign.

"And you're the world's means of punishment!"

Milosevic is a criminal. I'm not able to punish him, I'm too old to join the military, and I have a family to care for. I served my time in the military, and would gladly have gone to Yugoslavia to stop him. It is the duty of every morally upright person (does not include Bill Clinton) to stop any fascist regime.




"Checked up and good to go, Commander!
Don't forget to enlist yourself."

I wish I could.

"Oh, the war with Afghanistan was so popular in Russia! It's still popular. And if you failed your history: it was a guerilla war - the one that can't be won."

It Didn't matter how unpopular the war in Afghanistan was in the USSR. The people there couldn't speak out against it for fear their own government would send them to the gulags in Siberia as political dissidents.

In the USA you can protest anything you want to without fear of retribution. And the government here is truly elected by the people. If they don't do what the majority of the people want, they won't be elected again.

The village of Surdulica underwent a few
hours ago a massive bombardment consisting
of 16 missiles in under 20 minutes, leaving
so far 20 dead including 12 children aged
between 5 and 12.

The intended military target is unknown as
NATO refuse to comment. They got away with
bombing tractor-led refugee convoys and
stranded trains on bridges, why stop at that.

Perhaps these children are paying the $900
million bill from the Apache crash. After all
Clark said earlier on today that "the worst
was still to come". However scared I may be,
I believe him.

Published in "Vanity Fair" november issue, 1997

"America, The Last Empire" by Gore Vidal

"Then, as of May 1946, we began to rearm Germany. Stalin went ape at
this betrayal. The Cold War was on.
At home, the media was beginning to prepare the attentive few for
disappointment, suddenly we were faced with the highest personal income
taxes in American history to pay for more and more weapons, among
them[...]all because 'the Russians were coming'. No one knew quite why
they were coming or with what, weren't they still burying 20 million
dead ? Official explanations for all this made little sense but then as
Truman's Secretary of State Dean Acheson merely observe, 'In the State
Department we used to discuss how much time that mythical 'average
American citizen' put in each day listening, reading, and arguing about
the world outside his own country...It seemed to us that 10 minutes a
day would be a high average'.

Although many still reflexively object to the word 'Empire' we have
military bases in every continent, as well as 10 aboard the aircrafrt
carrier called the United Kingdom. For fifty years, we have supported
too many tyrants, overthrown too many democratic governments, wasted too
much of our own money in other people's civil wars to pretend that we
are just helping out all those poor little folks all around the world
who love freedom and democracy just like we do. When the Russians
stabbed us in the back by folding their empire in 1991, we were left
with many misconceptions about ourselves and, rather worse, about the
rest of the world.

[...]Instead of shrinking, expand our phantom empire in Europe by
popping everyone into NATO ? No reason to have any particular enemy,
though, who knows, if sufficient goaded, Russia might again be persuaded
to play Great Satan in our somewhat dusty chamber of horrors.

With an expanded NATO, our arms makers-if not workers-are in for a
bonanza. As it is, our sales of weapons were up 23% last year .[...]
Upon joining NATO, the lucky new club member is obliged to buy expensive
weapons from the likes of Lockheed Martin, recently merged with Northrop
Grumman."

Guido , Emina

We have to ask ourselves if we have not already
achieved the best we could have hoped for
on this board.

We have done well in simply having the pro-Serbs
state their opinions IN WRITING.
Their arguements are all here for everybody to scrutinize.

People will get to read these things long after
the demise of Milosovic and Greater Serbia,
during and after the War Crime Tribunals.
Let time be the judge.
Let 20/20 hintsight illuminate their way.

There will always be those who
MUST take "alternative" positions,
and who NEED to go counter-clockwise,
because thinking "differently" for them
translates into them thinking "better" or "deeper".
I too was a teenager long ago.
I remember my Anti-Establishment days.

Do we really need to convince them of anything now?
Does it serve any purpose to continue?
You will be unable to MAKE them see if they do not WANT to see.

I take peace from the following
1. There is no future for Milosovic.
2. There will be no Greater Serbia
3. The Serb Police and Army will pay for their crimes.
4. Albanians will return to Kosovo.
5. Bill, Albright, and so on will win the war.
6. Those that win the war will write the history.

It will be so regardless of what anybody says or writes.
So give them time,
they will see it all happen before their eyes.
Save yourselves from the insults and the rethoric.
Leave that for Milosovic.

Give it time - they WILL SEE.

The prime reason for tensions in Kosovo is the explosive growth of the Albanian population. Even though the Yugoslav Federation tried its best to develop the region - no investment and no industrial growth rate could match Albanian population growth. Despite the efforts, the region remained the poorest region of Yugoslavia.
Extensive autonomy given to Kosovo Albanians was abused by them as they tried to cleanse the region of non-Albanians. This was to be their first step towards secession and Greater Albania.

How Albanians try to "solve" the problem
By applying Macheavellian rule that - ends justify means. En masse they sell drugs
and do other illegal activities in the West. Money thus earned is used to by weapons - and spread terror.

How the Serbs try to solve the problem?
Serbian proposals for a peaceful solution are falling on deaf ears.

The role of the West
Using ancient method "divide et impera" the West tries to pry yet another region off the multiethnic body of Yugoslavia. Albanian terrorists have full American support. They are American proxies.

Misconceptions
Trying to turn NATO into World Policeman - Western governments are urging their media to continue the propaganda war against Yugoslavia and the Serbian people.The first step is - always - to put Truth (any truth) on its head.

BORROWED from another site.

Basil, Alexei
ref : your messages APR.27.99 on PRINCIPLES # 1, 2 and 3.

BASIL,
I am not trying to insult you
in any way with the following question.
It is simply an attempt to understand the statement you made.
The way I read it you say
that you agree with Principle # 1
(no Genocide, no Deportation, no Rape under ANY/ANY circumstances or due to ANY/ANY cause).

But then you (seem to) say that when it happens
in Sovereign territory it should not be stopped.

Specifically you seem to state that in this case
NATO does not have the right to stop it
because it happens in sovereign Serb territory,
and NATO was not designed for this purpose.

IF this is your statement,
then I respectfully disagree.
My reasoning is this : many of the German
concentration camps were in Sovereign German territory,
yet I have no disagreement
with the bombing of Berlin or Dresden or
any other sovereign German city
for the purpose of correcting these wrongs.

ON PRINCIPLE # 2 : "No military alliance is allowed to impersonate the will of the United Nations unless officially empowered by the latter".
As far as I know, NATO is acting as NATO.
It has not requested the permission of the UN.
It will never get the UN Security Council to O.K. its action.
The Russians and Chinese would never cooperate.


ALEXEI - ON PRINCIPLE # 3
Principle # 3 reads : "In case military operation is inevitable, only objects of MILITARY SIGNIFICANCE should be exposed to bombing, not civil ones".

Alexei, it is a humane principle,
and I subscribe to it,
but we need to define "military significance".
Again, Berlin, Dresden and other areas of civilian concentration
were in my view legitimate
targets for Allied bombs.
They helped fuel the German war machine,
Bombing them helped win the war.

BE A MAN, NOT A RICE

Your message to me: "You are a fuc*ing idiot. You may want to consider spending your free time with your thumb up your a**."

Is this the best you can do?
Go ahead, try some more -
unless you have something intelligent to say.

YOU ARE A COWARD
Feel comfortable hiding in anonimity, "RICE"?
Threatening from the shadows?

RICE, BE A MAN - NOT MICE