By Maja on Sunday, April 4, 1999 - 07:23 pm:
Bob, you regret what is gonna happen to my country? What does my country have to do with it except it let your murderous planes fly over our country to kill people?
It seems like you don't know what you are talking about.

---

Maja, you are correct. I misread the country that you say that you are from. My apologies.

However, I still stand by my statements that the Malosovic's actions must end. Evicting people from their homes, burning their homes and killing some of them simply because they are different is wrong. It must and will be stopped. I think that by now Malosovic and those who support him are beginning to find that out...

I agree. But it doesn't look you are stopping him. It seems to me you are provocing him.

You are bloodthirty murderers who pour crocodile tears on "poor Albanians". 3 very simple questions:
1) If Milosevic is so terrible murderer why was it NO war in Kosovo before NATO troops entered Albania and immediately after that KLA was formed equiped well by NATO and started to kill everyone in Kosovo, first of all peaceful Albanians who di not want to support KLA? You know tensions in Kosovo started in 1990 but it was no war between 1990-1998!!!!!
2) Why did you forget October 1998? Milosevic withdrew a lot of forces, agreed about autonomy and ceasefire was agreed. What was next? KLA killed and burned in ovens Serbian and Albanian peasants and declared:"No peace talks! War until independence!" Who on Earth has broken peace agreement???
3) Why not to bomb Ankara? Turks killed THOUSANDs of Kurds, Turks do not even admit any possibility of negotiation.

West has gone too far, NATO is damned by God for the crimes - lies and murder.+ImACxw-

By Maja on Sunday, April 4, 1999 - 10:12 pm:
I agree. But it doesn't look you are stopping him. It seems to me you are provocing him.

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Maja, we didn't have time to properly prepare before he started his attacks on the civilians. We are beginning to get enough airplanes in the area and the weather is improving. Him and his followers are probably just now beginning to get an idea of how much damage that we can do to him and his army.

I assure you that, before it's over they will have a clear understanding that the price that has to be paid is much higher than he expected. Sooner or later, he will decide to treat people like they are human beings or we will just have to make him do it anyway...

This is who the brave Serbian Police and Soldiers fight, they must be proud of themselves.



I don't feel sorry for the Serbs anymore and I sure don't believe their propaganda. Milosevic has destroyed Yugoslavia, not NATO. This started long before NATO dropped the first bomb.

Dan,
I don't doubt the crimes of the Serbian para-military forces, but there have been terrible crimes against women and children throughout the world. While we are condeming the Serbians, you might want to ask why the United States will not sign the UN treaty to stop the development, sale, and stock piling of landmines. http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr8.htm,


View http://www.pgs.ca/pages/lm/ldmnp1.html
Warning its graphic.

Ask why the US is using cluster bombs? They have not denied their use in Pentagon briefings.

see
http://www.mennonitecc.ca/mcc/misc/drop-today.html #Heading3
To find out more about the US use of cluster bombs.

Why we are one of the few countries that has not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child
http://www.unicef.org/crc/status.htm

Maja,
I agree that NATO, instead of helping, is only causing more human suffering. Unfortunatly many people in the US seem to be under the illusion that human rights can be brought about by massive force. In actuallity, most major human rights gains have been won through civil disobedience and non-violence; Christian martyrs, Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Ghandi, Nelson Mandella,are the examples to follow.
Americans need only to look at their own history to see that this is true. The Civil War was fought to end slavery and the 13th Amendment was ratified in 1875, but it took massive protests during the late 1950's and '60's to bring about any real change in the way blacks were treated. In the process of battling for human rights over these many years, people were lynched, beaten, jailed, intimidated, and assassinated. Civil rights weren't won by the Northern army, they were won by people both black and white who fought small personal battles and stood by friends and neighbors in the face of personal danger and intimidation.
The people in the US have little tolerance for thinking about complex situations or in applying the lessons of history to current situations. But what can you expect from those who grew up ingesting a diet of John Wayne and Rambo?

The NY Times had a good article that provides a more balanced account of the situation in Kosovo.
http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/europe/040599kosovo-albania.html

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consientious stupidity." Rev. Martin Luther King

By Ceejay on Monday, April 5, 1999 - 10:45 am:
>Maja,I agree that NATO, instead of helping, is >only causing more human suffering. Unfortunatly >many people in the US seem to be under the >illusion that human rights can be brought about >by massive force. In actuallity, most major >human rights gains have been won through civil >disobedience and non-violence; Christian >martyrs, Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Ghandi, >Nelson Mandella,are the examples to follow.

Two points of order. Ghandi wasn't Christian and Mandella isn't dead. You do know that you have to be both dead and Christian to be a "Christian Martyr" don't you?

>Americans need only to look at their own history >to see that this is true. The Civil War was >fought to end slavery and the 13th Amendment was >ratified in 1875, but it took massive protests >during the late 1950's and '60's to bring about >any real change in the way blacks were treated.

Slavery was abolished during the civil war, which ended in 1865. During no time in US history was there ever an attempt to eliminate blacks or drive them out of the country.

>In the process of battling for human rights over >these many years, people were lynched, beaten, >jailed, intimidated, and assassinated. Civil >rights weren't won by the Northern army, they >were won by people both black and white who >fought small personal battles and stood by >friends and neighbors in the face of personal >danger and intimidation.

And the introduction of National Guard troops on occasion...

>The people in the US have little tolerance for >thinking about complex situations or in applying >the lessons of history to current situations. >But what can you expect from those who grew up >ingesting a diet of John Wayne and Rambo?

And Malosovic has some problems understanding the resolve of the NATO nations not to allow him to try to do to the Kosovars what Hitler did to the Jews. Perhaps you should read a little Euorpean history...

Bob,
You mis-read my message. There was a semi-colon after civil disobedience and non-violence. The Christian martyrs, Martain Luther King, Ghandi,and Mandela are all examples of people who fought for human rights through non-violent methods and civil disobedience.I did not mean to imply that Ghandi was a Christian or that Mandela was a martyr.
Many of my own ancestors were burned at the stakes in Europe because of their religion, but they did not take up arms against those who persecuted them. They truly believed in Christ's teaching to turn the other cheek and pray for your enemy. They went to the stakes singing hymns and praying until their persecutors put screws in their tongues so that they could not sing on the way to die. There was a definite effort to exterminate these people, but many fled to other countries and were helped in their flight by people of conscience throughout Europe. In the United States, many of their children and grandchilren helped with the underground railroad and spoke out in the Anti-slavery movement, but they did not fight in the Civil War.

>>Slavery was abolished during the civil war, which ended in 1865. During no time in US history was there ever an
attempt to eliminate blacks or drive them out of the country. >>

Obviously, you are not aware of the effort to send those of African ancestory back to Africa- See the history of Liberia. The KKK certainly tried to remove them from the South.
They were not treated a whole lot better in the North see http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/history/courses/hist563/baker/baker1.ht m" TARGET="_top"> http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/history/courses/hist563/baker/baker1.htm,http://www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/history/courses/hist563/baker/baker1.htm for a review of conditions for blacks in the North following the Civil War. Why do you think this mass migration took place?

The goal of the Serbians is a Serbain controlled Kosovo, not necessarily the removal of the Albanians, but since the KLA has chosen to attempt independence from Serbia, the Serbian policy has been an effort to keep them in line or drive them out. What do you think would have happened in the South after the Civil War if blacks would have created a Black Liberation Army with arms provided by Cuba and Mexico? Do you think the US Army would have stood by and let the BLA take over the South and force whites in the area into submission?

>And the introduction of National Guard troops on occasion... >
Union troops left the South after Hayes made a deal to withdraw them in order to seal his election. Troops were not brought in again to protect them until after the NAACP was formed and organized protests and
fought in the courts to get Plessy vs Ferguson reversed. The troops were brought in because people of conscience had already been made accutely aware of the injustice going on in the South. That awareness came through people standing up for their rights and gaining the attention of the media despite threats of having their homes and churches bombed,
being beaten, lynched, etc. When white control in the South was threatened, the police force in the south and para-military KKK acted much like the Kosovo police force and para-military troops acted in Kosovo prior to the NATO bombing. They killed people, beat them,jailed them, threatened them, etc.

One more proof that refugees became a problem after the bombings and that Clinton didn't start bombing to stop Milosevic running Albanians out.
There is NO, I repeat NO, mentioning refugees in the Rambuiett ( sorry for misspelling ) agreement.
If that was the most important issue why was it never mentioned. If Clinton has known that, as he says, why didn't Albright put it in the agreement.
Why is this agreement not "on the table anymore"? Cause the most important issue is not in it. Together with NATO being absolutely not prepared for those refugees is a strong sign nobody predicted refugees.

i think Ground Troops should be send because americans will get second vietnam and leave the yugoslavia as a fu.king loosers.

Bob, you are finally admitting you didn't prepare yourself. Why? Cause Pentagon never wanted this war. They strongly opposed it. But Clinton and Albright demanded it and it was not their place to question it. Read Washington Post to learn more.

By Maja on Monday, April 5, 1999 - 07:37 pm:
>Bob, you are finally admitting you didn't >prepare yourself. Why?

We didn't have time because Malosovich had already staged his forces and was going to start his atrocities against the Kosovars anyway.

>Cause Pentagon never wanted this war. They >strongly opposed it. But Clinton and Albright >demanded it and it was not their place to >question it. Read Washington Post to learn more.

Neither Clinton, Albright, the Pentagon, nor the people who live in the NATO nations want it. The Pentagon's concern was that the nation has no "stragegic advantage" to the NATO nations and we don't have a clear cut exit strategy. Malosivich forced the issue by not wanting to talk peace with the Kosovars and staging for an attack

If anyone thinks that the region has anything that we want and it's some kind of a secret plot to take over the country they are just plain wrong. However, Malosovich had his chance for peace and he doesn't want it. He want's his country cleansed.

I understand that things are heating up a little bit over there for him and his followers. He hasn't seen anything yet. One thing that this country learned in Vietnam was if we are going to do it, we are going to do it right. Not having the Kosovars in the way is really a good thing. That way we will know who the enemy is and we will deal with him.

If ground troops are sent in...it won't last long.

Maja don't stop talking, I am glad you are doing your homework! Bob you are so much determined to win, I ask you what will be your gain? Peace in Balkan? Is that the goal here? Once Serbs are dead and gone do you think there will be peace?