" This rudimentary argument is significant. It tells you something. It tells you people are suffering from non existing freedom of speech. "

Zoja, you point out a serious shortcoming many posters have. They don't seem to be able to identify with the feelings and sentiments of other posters (and I include myself amongst the guilty.) Some of us tend to be too emotional, others too analytical (cold and distant.)

In all fairness though, the boards in general are so filled with 'flamers' that it's hard to quickly get a feel for posters and so the ones who are truly in distress and who have difficulty expressing themselves (possibly because English is not their primary language) become marginalized and we as readers and posters fail to connect with them.

Of course nothing can substitute for good manners. Returning a slight with a kindness is hard to do particularly in the heights of passionate argument. But I believe we become better able to express ourselves by saying what we mean without the harsh words that interfere with meaning and throw our readers off message. When we use harsh words we will never cause anyone to take us seriously let alone rethink their own position. phil

To PhilTR

I mentioned in a post a while back that the only way there will be peace in Kosovo is for the cycle of retaliation and revenge currently going on to be broken. And the way I see it, there are only two ways this is going to happen: 1) A strong authoritarian government maintaining the peace by force of arms and strong armed enforcement of laws as in the Roman empire, or 2) Jesus of Nazareth ruling in the hearts (spirits) and minds of men. When people invite Jesus to take an active place in their life, He changes them from the inside out to make them like Himself. Maybe not all at once, but the more they yield their lives to Him, the more like Him they become. I don't claim to have arrived, but then God isn't finished with me yet, either.

Problem with 1) is that authoritarian rule can only go so far before it incites rebellion in men's hearts, then you have incidents like Tiennamen Square where such rebellion is put down with ruthless force.

Problem with 2) is that there is a devil roaming around the earth deceiving people and blinding their minds to the truth, so that they will try everything but Jesus. And I believe this is why there is so much strife and discord in the world today.

I know there are those who will disagree with me, and there are those who will cite atrocities by the church in the middle ages. For the latter I point out that being a member of a church does not make one a Christian, any more than having an account at a garage makes one an automobile. True Christianity is a personal, one on one relationship between the individual and Jesus Himself, all else is empty religion. For the rest, if you don't believe the above you will just have to disagree.

Mental exercise for flamers:

In your imagination, do the following:

Take a feather pillow and a sharp knife into a high tower on a windy day. Next, cut the pillow open and shake the feathers into the wind.
Now go and gather up every one of those feathers.

Can't do it? Neither can you recall angry and hasty words posted on this board.

To all:

I watched this hillariously insane film last night called "Mars Attacks" and was reminded of this little story someone had emailed me. Hope it gives you a few good laughs to start the week with.

tommygunns

================================================

IMAGINE

a short story for our time

Imagine, if you will, the leader of the fifth invader force speaking to the commander in chief . . .

"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars."

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea of the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!"

"So... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"So what does the meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual."

"We're supposed to talk to meat?"

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat! This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going? But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we can mark this sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone in it."


JUST IMAGINE!

m'sieu gunns,
you may or may not already know this but the title of "it cant happen here", off the 1st mothers lp, actually came from a book popular around the same time, therefore even earlier than that lp cut.
see ya!