Kim,

I had intended to respond over the weekend, but I was much too busy and didn't even go online. I'll try to get to it later in the week.

In the meantime, you might do me the favor of pointing out those "patronizing comments" you attribute to me and my generation. I'm wondering if you had difficulties with your parents, or just other people's opinions.

t'gunns

Okely dokely!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No, Kim. My comment said nothing about NATO's policies or the KLA's operations. Here's the comment
again:

[Comment: as usual, the media downplays the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Kosovo by mentioning
"the deaths of 10 Serbs in Kosovo in recent weeks", failing to note there have been several hundred
Serbs murdered in Kosovo since NATO troops entered the province a year ago.]

In fact, my comment was about the media mouthing the party line.

- Yes, it was clear what your comment was about- in response I wanted to know, if the media were "mouthing the party line" as you said, what was being covered up?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Really, Kim. You surprise me, making such a naive statement. The "conflict area" happens to be their
homeland, their nation, they place they and their ancestors have lived generation after generation
after generation!!!!!!! Where the hell are they suppose to go? Maybe you'd suggest a vacation in Capri?

- you make me sound like a Cheer leader or something. I explained what I meant by this in the last post.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> I guess I'm wondering if Serbs would ever trust in Nato,

Give me one good reason why they should!!!!!

Exactly, so Why would they stay in Kosovo - Is Nato supposed to force them to stay? Because for Nato to achieve their goals it would be more in their favour to establish a multi-ethnic independent Kosovo, where everything is Hunky Dorey and Nato are the great saviours. Instead the Serbs are leaving, most embarrassing, which brings us back to the "media cover-up".
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't think you understand the nature of the Beast. What's to negotiate? There isn't a solution.
Besides, the situation is as the globalists want it to be. It isn't an ethnic dispute anymore. It's
history, Kim. Happening right before your eyes. You are witness to the birth and creation of the first
Techno-Global Empire, where you and I and billions of others are mere ants going about our busyness,
powerless and unable to influence anything.

_ So you have given up on humanity and the rest of us are stupid and naiv to think anything can be changed. That there might be an alternative way, than simply dismantling the last forty years(I mean the UN and other international orgs.), America keeping itself to itself and let the rest of the world fight it out.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sorry to disallusion you. In fact, it's a lot uglier than even I can paint it. The historians of the
25th Century will look back on the Industrial Age of the 20th Century as one of the ugliest and most
destructive periods in the history of humankind.

_ Who said you Disillusioned me? Isn't that what historians do best, pass judgement from hindsight?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I had intended to respond over the weekend, but I was much too busy and didn't even go online. I'll try
to get to it later in the week.

I have a life too, and its busy. Stop apologising, I don't sit around waiting for something to happen at DMS

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the meantime, you might do me the favor of pointing out those "patronizing comments" you attribute
to me and my generation. I'm wondering if you had difficulties with your parents, or just other
people's opinions.

I rest my case. That says more than anything that went before. Of course"the facts are all on your side" fate accomplis! Who am I to ask questions!

Okey Dokey, Kim.

#1.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No, Kim. My comment said nothing about NATO's policies or the KLA's operations. Here's the comment
again:

[Comment: as usual, the media downplays the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Kosovo by mentioning
"the deaths of 10 Serbs in Kosovo in recent weeks", failing to note there have been several hundred
Serbs murdered in Kosovo since NATO troops entered the province a year ago.]

In fact, my comment was about the media mouthing the party line.

- Yes, it was clear what your comment was about- in response I wanted to know, if the media were "mouthing the
party line" as you said, what was being covered up?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, if that's what you meant, that's what you should have written. But you didn't. Instead, you tossed a "patronizing" hand grenade.

As the hookah-smoking caterpillar said to Alice, "Say what you mean, and mean what you say".

end #1

t'gunns

Kim,

#2.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Really, Kim. You surprise me, making such a naive statement. The "conflict area" happens to be their
homeland, their nation, they place they and their ancestors have lived generation after generation
after generation!!!!!!! Where the hell are they suppose to go? Maybe you'd suggest a vacation in Capri?

- you make me sound like a Cheer leader or something. I explained what I meant by this in the last post.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, I know. and that's what I was commenting on, e.g., your suggestion that they just leave. I think that's rather naive. Kosovo is their land, their home, their life. Just because the bullies of the west have other plans for Kosovo, the Serbs are suppose to turn tail and run and hide? Where? But more important, Why?

I have a lot of respect and admiration for those Serbs who remain defiant and in Kosovo. They are a constant reminder of the criminal acts of the western imperialists, not only for the bombing and destruction in Serbia, but for their role in the whole process of the destruction and dismantling of Yugoslavia.

Did you know that Yugoslavia was one of the original 4 or 5 founding members of the United Nations? Because of US manipulation they have been stripped of their membership in the UN and are prevented of even having a representative "observe" security council debates about their own country!

end #2

t'gunns

Kim,

#3.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> I guess I'm wondering if Serbs would ever trust in Nato,

Give me one good reason why they should!!!!!

Exactly, so Why would they stay in Kosovo - Is Nato supposed to force them to stay? Because for Nato to achieve
their goals it would be more in their favour to establish a multi-ethnic independent Kosovo, where everything is
Hunky Dorey and Nato are the great saviours. Instead the Serbs are leaving, most embarrassing, which brings us
back to the "media cover-up".
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Are you suggesting that NATO's goal in Kosovo was the establishment of a multi-ethnic independent state? Do you think the Serbs believe that? or ever did? That's nonsense. NATO doesn't care about multi-independent-anything. It's about power, and resources, and most of all it's about OIL.

BTW - Kosovo WAS a multi-ethnic society. But that wasn't enough for the KLA and their CIA/MI6/BND patrons. And don't forget that it wasn't only Serbs who fled Kosovo. There are a half million Kosovo Albanians inside Serbia, not to mention the Gorani, Roma, Turks, Egyptians - all of whom had to leave their ancestral homes. I think they know quite well what NATO is and what it is (or isn't) doing. Serbia is the ONLY multi-ethnic state in the entire Balkans. Why is that?

I still want to know "one good reason" why the Serbs should ever trust NATO, or the US.

end #3

t'gunns

Kim,

#4.
So you have given up on humanity and the rest of us are stupid and naiv to think anything can be changed. That there might be an alternative way, than simply dismantling the last forty years (I mean the UN and other international orgs.), America keeping itself to itself and let the rest of the world fight it out.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No, I think "humanity" (whatever that is) gave up on itself. The time for ordinary people to make a difference has passed. Thirty years ago there was hope:

"There are many of those among us
who think that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that
we know that this is not our fate.
So, let us not talk falsely now
the hour is getting late."

---from All Along the Watchtower (Dylan/Hendrix)

(I apologize for the less than accurate wording. If I had the time, I'd pull out the LP and get the words right, but alas. . . . I am the White Rabbit and it's late, it's late, it's late!!)

I believe we have entered one of those periods in history where events outpace out ability to control them. The juggernaught of western imperialism is on the march, and the US is at the helm. It will crush ANYTHING that gets in the way.

I'm in favor of your last sentence above, however I know it ain't going to happen that way.

end #4

and time is up for today. later for the rest.

t'gunns

Kim,

#5.

On second thought, I might as well finish up. These last few are too funny to leave. (smiley, smiley)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I had intended to respond over the weekend, but I was much too busy and didn't even go online. I'll try to get to it later in the week.

I have a life too, and its busy. Stop apologising, I don't sit around waiting for something to happen at DMS

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Damn! You mean I misinterpreted you! And I thought you were just always out there lurking and looking for a good cyber-fight. (smiley, smiley)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the meantime, you might do me the favor of pointing out those "patronizing comments" you attribute to me and my generation. I'm wondering if you had difficulties with your parents, or just other people's opinions.

I rest my case. That says more than anything that went before. Of course "the facts are all on your side" fate accomplis! Who am I to ask questions!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What else was I suppose to do with that live grenade you tossed in here? Hit me, I hit back. Actually, a more accurate word to use (in place of patronizing) would have been sarcastic. That I yam, ma'm; that I yam. But always with a couple of smileys.

Yes, of course "the facts ARE all on MY side" because I'm right! I'm always right! Does that irritate you? It shouldn't.

Have you read Rosanne Barr's autobiographies? She actually wrote two, completely on her own without ghost writers, editors, etc. And the amazing thing is that she is quite a good writer. In other words, she knows how to write what she means and mean what she writes. She wrote a beautiful part about her experience in a mental hospital and what she learned. Briefly this: it's ok to know the answer to everything; and it's ok to know that you know the answer. Where you get into trouble is when you begin to convince others that you know the answer and that you think it's ok. Because if they think you might be right, they'll kill you!

end #5


RED ALERT . . . RED ALERT . . . RED ALERT . . .
IMPORTANT MESSAGE: TO JC

DO NOT RETURN TO EARTH. REPEAT. DO NOT RETURN TO EARTH. IF YOU DO, THEY WILL HAVE TO KILL YOU AGAIN. REPEAT. WARNING. DO NOT RETURN.

over and out, t'gunns

good morning, all...

had an idea for a comic strip
called "KEE-RIST!"
this would star ol' jc hisself.

he'd keep trying to 'return'
and would keep gettin' kilt
and returning in another body,
over and over and over.
only his human 'sidekick'
would know it was, continually, jc

he'd talk to 'dad' on his cell-phone.
'dad' would be unamused,
wanting to wipe out the planet,
but ol' jc would keep talking him out of it...

but by episode's end
he'd be kilt again.

Kee-rist!

nah, no xian here.

T'gunns.

I think we are both speculating as to Nato's motives. Why the media didn't cover the Serbs leaving, could just as well be because it just ain't news anymore(In their eyes not mine I hasten to add, lest I be misunderstood). Do you have any evidence of direct control over the media by Nato?
Yes Nato has its spin doctors, but a journalist worth his salt would see through that.I think the problem lies elsewhere. I think like myself alot of people find the truth hard to digest. AS most papers cater to their reader's tastes in order to make more sales, a story that makes us the bad guys is less likely to be printed. Unless of course we can read it and feel morally superior to "the idiots running Nato".

With regards to your question why the Serbs should trust Nato. Well there is obviuosly no reason for them to do so.(Should they trust Milosovich?-but that's another matter as is the fact that I will never trust any politician again). I also have respect for those sticking it out in Kosovo, but at the same time I don't blame those who are leaving and getting themselves and their families to safety.
My point was and remains, that the RHETORIC from Nato was to create "a multi-ethnic independent state", so really it is as much in their favour as it is for those who are critical of Nato for the Serbs to be seen to stay.
Meanwhile the people you admire so much are paying the ultimate price, politics aside, is it fair for either side to expect them to stay in Kosovo until their safety can be ensured.

A lot could be undertaken by Russia and China to assist in returning Kosovo to some sense of order, but of course they are quite happy to watch Nato squirm. (and who can blame them, but well why not be pragmatic). The people of Kosovo on both sides are now just a political football.

T'gunns, I am not on any side here. I guess I'm precariously ballanced on a fence. I can see both sides and neither side is very pretty. I think people who are attacking Nato have as much of an agenda as Nato has. Recently the revisionism regarding the second world war.
We already knew that all sorts of games were played on both sides. Stalin was a law unto himself, Churchill was willing to sell out most of Eastern Europe to prevent the "spread of Communism" and the Marshall Plan was the biggest economic scam ever. What is new in what is being said, we knew the Russians were the fallguys.

Why now, is this part of the drive to dismantle the UN? The last forty years were on false pretences and the Soviet Union didn't happen?
We don't deserve our prosperity and relative security. It probably won't make much difference to you guys over there in the States, you can sit pretty in your American isolation.Europe basically cannot defend itself, so WE will have to compromise not the US.

You say America should just keep itself to itself and keep out of foreign affaires.No way Jose, you guys got us all into this mess, you can darned well start doing something to get us out again! And stop feeling sorry for yourselves!
(we tried to help but the rest of the world is ungrateful- or - it wasn't me guv, it was the government,I just bite the hand that feeds me)

There rant over!!! I new something was bugging me!
Smiley, smiley,smiley

Kim

Kim,

Ahhhhh, you're so cute when you rant!!!!

Juuuuuust kidding, :O) :O).

Once again, I'd like to direct your attention to (your least favorite web site?) the latest article by Diana Johnstone. Ms. Johnstone has been observing and writing about the Balkans for a long time. Of all the journalists, writers, and other "experts" on the history, politics, and cultures of the region, she captures my own views much better than I ever could. I am always amazed at her ability to tie together the seemingly disparate elements of contemporary geopolitical maneuvering and show the connections and the reasons behind what often appear as random or unexpected events.

t'gunns

Here's just the beginning of her article, the link follows:

MAKING THE CRIME FIT THE PUNISHMENT

by Diana Johnstone (6-23-00)

The order of events is strange. On March 24, 1999, the NATO forces led by the United States began an eleven-week-long punishment of Yugoslavia's President, Slobodan Milosevic, which amounted to capital punishment for an undetermined number of citizens of that unfortunate country. Two months later, on May 27, the U.S.-backed International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia issued an indictment of Milosevic for "crimes against humanity" having occurred after the punishment began. Then, in late June, the Clinton administration dispatched 56 forensic experts from the Federal Bureau of Investigation to Kosovo to gather material evidence of the crimes for which Milosevic and five of his colleagues had already been indicted and for which his country had already been severely and durably punished.

The FBI had no instructions to search for evidence of crimes as such, including those that might have been committed by, say, armed rebels fighting against the established government of Yugoslavia. The only crimes of interest were those for which Milosevic had previously been accused, and all evidence was assumed in advance to point to his guilt.

Thus the world entered the new age of humanitarian vigilante power.

L'men,

Hey, what do you folks smoke back there in the heartland of america????

Kilt Agin' sounds like it could be the title song of your comic strip turned into a movie.

how about a musical/comedy treatment of The Grand Inquisitor from Doestoyevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov"? A Spaced-Rock Xtian Opera starring Madonna (maybe) ??????

wow! the possibilities!

tttttttttt'gunns

ps - the only peas in the valley is when the golly green giant is in town, and he be peaing all over the place!!!! He, he.

m'sieu Gunns:
aint no 'heartland of america' pour moi;
try, heh, 'america's home town'
home of plymouth rock.
=
but i'm reminded of my cross-country hitching
days; getting picked up outside of okc by a couple
of good not-so-ol' boys, who drove out to a lake
and shared what they called 'okie choke'; pot so
=koff= _lousy_ it coulda dated to WWII hemp
fields...more like an initiation rite than
'getting high'.

bearing in mind that ca.'76 'homegrown' pot was
understood to be nigh-unsmoke-able, before our
contemporary days of hydro 'two hits and you're on
the floor' american reefer.

ps-- TGSB:

and while we're on the subject, another thumbing
journey took me straight down through, literally,
'the valley of the jolly [ho 3] green giant', in
LeSeur[sp?], Minnesota.

them were the days, comrade.
them were the days.

L'men,

Jeeez, if I say "amen" and repeat "those were the days", we're gonna sound like a couple of old geezers!

Thus, for the sake of my unsullied reputation of perpetual hipness, I think I'll just leave it alone with a "hmmmm, that's an interesting thought". :O)

Right! You're in Mass. My mistake. Why do I keep thinking Cleveland, as in Ohio? It must be those damn bad clusters on my mental hard drive sucking all my memory data into some black hole. Hmmmm, maybe that's where the data goes -- Cleveland!!

Welcome to the valley!

SB t'gunns

m'sieu Gunns...

license and registration, please.