I read this story and was wondering what all of you come up with. It's not a story against or a story on Serbia's side, but it holds the middle.

I personaly think that it could be that Serbia will be devided(thoughtwise) after all this. Maybe one halve of the population will see what Milosevic has let the country thus also the population into, and the others still stick with him no matter what and hold a grudge. Which i can understand too.

Although i hope that one day humanity (all of us) will learn and violence in anyway is no longer, but for now that is only in my dreams the truth:-(

If you want just read it and maybe we can chare thoughts about this.

DESTROYING SERBIA IN ORDER TO SAVE IT

by Christopher Walker

The administration of a hard-hitting therapy for a grave
illness has the potential to cure but also runs the risk of
grievously harming the patient. For Yugoslavia, NATO's
therapy of choice--an ever-escalating bombing campaign--poses
the following question: Will this military operation affect
Serbian society so that it becomes consumed with resentment
and malice toward the international community? Or will the
NATO effort purge from Serbia the cancerous behavior that has
so plagued the entire Balkan region for the last decade?
Now into the second month of its bombing operation, NATO
is targeting a wider range of transport and communication
links and is increasingly focusing on a range of key
industrial sites and economic assets throughout Serbia. While
most of the targets at the outset of the campaign were
overtly military in nature, it is clear that considerable
destruction is now being done to the civilian sector and
economic infrastructure in Serbia--and not only as a result
of collateral damage.
It is also clear that the Western alliance overestimated
the effectiveness of air power as the tool for compelling
Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic to accede to its
demands. Unable to get Milosevic to capitulate quickly and
unwilling to take the more drastic military steps that would
help bring the conflict to a close, the allies are relegated
to hammering Serbia from the air.
The failure of the Milosevic era speaks for itself. All
sectors of Yugoslav society have been infected by the
regime's primitive style of governance. A byproduct of the
NATO bombing campaign has been an intensification of already
existing anti-democratic conditions in Serbia: profiteers who
honed their skills during the Croatian and Bosnian wars are
now back on familiar, lucrative ground; the country's
politics, already extreme by regional standards, have been
further polarized; the economy, in shambles dating back
several years, is in danger of being gutted entirely; and
independent media, which had operated under consistent
official pressure, have now been formally taken over and
added to the state-run propaganda machinery.
At the same time, the effects of Serbia's condition have
not been confined within its own borders. On the contrary,
Serbia has played the role of regional menace for a full
decade now. And as a result, all of its neighbors have
suffered.
The politics of aggression, as directed from Belgrade,
have dragged down the regional economy and contributed
greatly to the view of the Balkans as a dark corner in
Europe. Serbia's actions have also radicalized to varying
degrees the politics of neighboring countries and provinces,
including Croatia, Bosnia, Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro,
and Kosova. The dramatic shifts of ethnic populations,
largely initiated and orchestrated by the Serbian regime,
have wreaked havoc on the regional landscape since the
disintegration of Yugoslavia.
Recognizing the enormity of the task of enabling
democratic habits to take root in Serbia and throughout the
Balkans, the NATO alliance is promoting what U.S. President
Bill Clinton describes as a post-conflict strategy for
reconstruction and renewal. The alliance seems sensitive to
the fact that Serbia cannot be left as a festering wound in
southeastern Europe after hostilities end.
Soliciting Russia's assistance in bringing about a
settlement with Milosevic is a delicate issue. Implicit in
using Russia's diplomatic channels to Belgrade is Milosevic's
remaining in power after a negotiated settlement. One
alternative arrangement, albeit almost inconceivable at the
moment, would be a Moscow-brokered plan that met key NATO
demands, while simultaneously allowing Milosevic an exit from
power that would protect his physical safety and not subject
him to prosecution as a war criminal.
But if Milosevic remains, it is hard to imagine a
scenario under which renewal and reform could take root in
Yugoslavia. At this point, reconstructing Serbia and
reorienting its politics will be difficult enough even if a
change in leadership were to take place. Moreover,
Milosevic's continued presence would negatively influence the
ability of fragile neighboring countries to regain their
footing.
Thoroughly vanquishing Serbia runs the risk of
positioning it as the sick man of Europe for the 21st
century. Equally risky would be to conclude the military
campaign without reasonable confidence that in the post-
conflict period Serbia would change its political habits. A
Serbian nation intent on continuing a pattern of belligerence
would undermine the entire region's prospects for stability
and prosperity.
The NATO alliance is putting forward billions of dollars
to continue its military effort against Serbia. Many more
billions will be necessary for the civilian rebuilding effort
after the guns are laid down.

The author is a New York-based analyst specializing in East
European affairs (@aol.com">intrel@aol.com).


Copyright (c) 1999 RFE/RL, Inc.
All rights reserved.


Emina

Hi Emina.
It's a free board, so I encourage you to call whoever you want whatever you want. I quite frequently can't help it myself.
As you anderstood , by B.I.T.... I ment exactly what you said - Behaved, intellectual and so on. I really want to think you are all that.

This exactly is the reason why I don't understant why you seek consolation with the people who pretend to be friendly. Be strong . Don't seek false friends. Unless you have the intention of ever going back to your motherland and not stay in Holland or the States just because they pay there better.

It's not one's Motherland who must pay one.
It's this one who must pay one's Motherland.

Copyright, Sergey

US government - I don't mean Jack or Guido, they are just mentally handicapped people with no possibility to get better, LOL, Guido? - want to have this long-term conflict between muslims and orthodox christians in the Balkans. The US scre#ed up so frequently recently with countries like Pakistan or Turkey, they so obviously took side of the Israeli in the conflict with the Arabs, that now they are looking for any opportunity to show the world thay can be friendly with muslims. Closing eyes on the drug dealing. Closing eyes on the atrocities still to come.

I saw people in green berets in Kosovar army - and they were not american. They were from either Chechnya, or Afghanistan or Lybia or someplace like that. Do you know they LOVE to wage wars? Do you know they cut off balls of their enemy soldiers , other parts of bodies for souveniers? Showed these to their commanders to get wages? Cut off heads of soldiers, tied them up to a drone on a rocket launcher and fired in the direction of the enemy troops?

Clinton knows all this is to come, he's lustily rubbing his hands in the anticipation of the LONG-TERM conflict, Doe-Johnson index climbing up making Billy more valuablein Guido's eyes?

Think, friend. What US want is a military test area away from home.

PS - Would Germay and France and the rest (except Blair the doggie) vote for bombing if not for US?

TO SERGEY.

I would love to go back to my own country, but as i told you before it's not very wise.

Besides i don't get paid well in Holland either.I had more money( mainly to give away) in Bosnia then i have now.

I don't seek false friends either. Just because someone does not agree with you doesn't make him/her a false friend.
Jack, Guido they stood by me when i broke down a few days ago, and i was ready to leave the board.The insults just were too much to cope with.

Emina

Sergey,
Grow up. You sound like a little kid. There will always be war and suffering. You can't stop it. Sometimes a person has to make light of it in order to preserve their sanity.Too bad it is too late for you.

I certainly don't mean your going back home NOW.

Don't pay attention to insults.

The people you mentioned are not idiots because they don't agree with me. They don't agree with me because they are idiots. Why they are idiots I don't know. Their moms' fault. Not that I care much.

Cheer up.

To Sergey

Why is one person an idiot who doesn't agree with you and the other one isn't? I really don't understand why you lower youself to insults, while you actually have the potential to respectfully diagree.

Screaming and calling people bitches or idiots is actually not very productive. We are discussing something on a board called Disaster Message Service. So, that meeans everybody posting here thinks this war is a disaster. Otherise they would join boards with other titles.

It is a disaster, to countries and people individually, and the stupidest thing you can do on a board like this is to join the war. Better try and work things out together, even if we don't agree and try and set up a reasonable discussion here.

What is relevant is that people stick up for each other when one is wrongfully attacked again and again. these so called idiots were there for me and my sister when things got really out of hand. What we do now is not pay any attention to screams and insults, and only join a reasonable argument.

I know Russians well enough to know they have a great sense of humour, so I am sure you will understand people lightening up grim things here.

What by the way do you mean with flirtations? We all probably missed people having virtual sex! Sure, that should not be done on this board, there are enough other boards to do that.

Zoja

To Jack

I was asked to collect some extra field material for the 'trauma congress' in New York in december, besides bringing my own case studies. And actually I think I don't have to look far to find it.

Maja is a perfect example of how far untreated Post Traumatic Stress Disorder can bring a person. She shows all the classic symptoms, not coming form war in her case, but another trauma, as everybody knows.(some examples are: forgetfulness, strongly varying and unpredictable moods, even rage sometimes directed at a bystander, and attacking someone on her own mistkes.)

Sadly sometimes people get as far as rage against everybody in general, distorting her own personality, and acting upon that. In her case she uses the war in her neighbour country as a scapegoat to vent all her frustrations on, identifying herself completely with one side of the subject, so much so that everybody starts to doubt her being Slovanian, and think she is living in Serbia.

I printed out all her mails, erased her name ofcourse, and instead asigning her some number.

I put this stoy on this board, not to piss anybody off, but to show what war and other traumas can lead to. It is important to always keep that in mind when you hear somebody on this board scream something extreme from the rooftops. Either they are fish floating in a stream, or they are victims of war or other trauma.

I know Majas country well enough to know the existing morale against her ordeal. I hope sometime in the near future she will recieve the help she really needs, and is able to develop her own person free from frustration and anger.


I send you the material today by UPS. Can you take care that it gets to my colleague, Dr. Z. Dragovic? Thanks!

Emina

To Emina-zoja-jack london (hum?)-guido

As you mentioned before, this is a DISASTER MESSAGE SERVICE. It will be a pleasure for all of us if you stop to use it like a personal message board. If i'm right, you have your personal email adresses of eachother...
So, when i come here i want to read facts and arguments about the WAR. Your personal problems like the last one ""I send you the material today by UPS. Can you take care that it gets to my colleague, Dr.
Z. Dragovic? Thanks!
Emina "" and many, many others in the past are outrageous for the rest of us !
So, please stop using this board in personal interest !!!

To Sotp war

Right on chief! Whatever you say!

There is enough relevance in these mails to justify publication on this board. I for one would be very interested in your opion about the SUBJECT, not the little technicalities! Can you enlighten us with that?

Zoja

To Stop War,

You forgot to answer this part of the article that I posted.....
One must wonder where were those Serbian peace-loving demonstrators when their troops were killing and terrorizing the people of
neighboring sovereign countries of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina.

You have a one way mind, nothing of importance comes out unless it's in your favor.

TO BAZMAN.
I agree with you totaly that bombing the place is not the only solution, and i think groundtroops should perhaps should have been sended from the very start.
Maybe just maybe this would be all over by then.
And maybe just maybe Milosevic would have been inprisoned by now.

Emina

To Stop War,

In reply to your post to Emina, zoja, jack and guido,...... Did you forget what you posted about "Freedom of Speech"?

If you don't like what someone here post, (DON'T READ IT). You have that freedom too.

To D-S
The "serbian peace-loving demonstrators" are not the only one against the actual war in Balkans. There are americans, british, french people and others who disagree with the use of force... BTW, I must recognize that a majority of people in those 3 country mentioned above is in favour of war, but that is due ( in my opinion ) to the fact of the propagandistic coverage of the situation by the western media.
Anyway, is just normal that the serbs who live in western countrys demonstrate against the war, which is just an affirmation of the "right to free expression". There are, too, albanians who demonstrate in those country, the difference is that they are in favour of use of force. When Iraq was hit by the UN force in '91 and US and Britain later, there was demonstrations of iraqy people living in western countrys, against those straikes. So, what's your point ?
Are "those serbs" (who demonstrate against the war in western country) entitled to the sames rights of freedom as anybody living there or not ?

To D-S
"Freedom of speech" and "respect" are 2 different categories. You can use your "freedom of speech" on that board in 2 ways : in "respect" with the tragedy of the situation, that means stick strictlly with the facts and arguments related to this crise or in "dis-respect", misguiding others with "personal messages" or insults...
To Zoja-Emina- Jack London (hum !)- Guido- D-S
I don't think is "enough relevance" to the tragedy in Balkans in yours personal messages. I just don't care about your medical diplomas, medical conferencies, banking personal jobs and "others important affairs", like meetings in whatever western capital to celebrate whatever silly rendez-vous...
In exchange, i care about the drama of both serbs and albanians (i don't refer to the KLA members...) or albanians and serbs, if you prefer, who were involved in this confliKt for mysterious interest of a cinical power and not "humanitarian reasons"....
There was not interest for peace, there was interest for war, and now really we have in Balkans a "humanitary catastrophy".

Nice one Maja. We knew all along what she was about, but I loved that little test of yours.

I see a lot of refugees accusing Serbs of the worst things on TV, but the problem is that they speak English. Albanians speaking English ? It's like Beavis & Butthead completing a Phd.

Of course the clever ones know that this is in response to a rumour that what comes out of the refugees' mouth is wrongly translated to contribute to the Serbs demonisation. Why ? Translators are Albanians too, they are the only ones accredited by NATO.

Also, you may have noticed that NATO reported 2 planes ••••••. Of course, there were pictures. The NATO think tank have very basic responses every time Serb media present them with a crisis, such as their pilots shot down and killed, a civilian target hit, and so on:

1) Deny that the event happened
2) Say you have no confirmation of it
3) Acknowledge the event, but claim not responsible for it
4) Realising you have no choice, agree you did it but your missile "strayed off course"
5) That target was not on our list
6) "Sometimes the pilot takes a shot"

The whole process, though very simple and systematic, goes on for days and is nevertheless designed with a psychological intent to squeeze a disguised apology among the dumb masses, with as much lubricant as possible.

And there are still morons on this site who claim that NATO admit their mistakes very quickly.

I am still waiting for some users to report information from various sources, Western or not, shedding some light on the Kosovo conflict. So far, the users this is aimed at persist in moaning that other people do not agree with them, although not advancing valid arguments why that should be the case. As more lies are exposed, the true nature of some does come out as well as signs of frustration displayed leading to childish comments. What makes this site worthwhile is its wealth of excerpts from the world's sources of information. As long as some of us keep posting these, there can be an exchange of opinions and the cognitive process may take place hopefully resulting in a fair, objective and precise analysis. Each user should ask himself whether he has got anywhere close to that stage, and should he not, wonder if this is worth his time as well as our time spent on loading the web page.

Nicolas