It's been better than half a year since I lost track of this boring and senseless discussion here. Some people left. Others came. Some people didn't change. The worse for them.

The board could be funny, would it not be so futile and impotent. While you all people here are discussing the problems you know from papers and CNN prostitutes others are making up the articles and newsreels you quote from. You might go to Kosovo now (course if you aren't going to use Serbian or any other slavonic language and get your head blown off by an albanian idiot) but that won't help you much in finding the evidence for mass murder.

Proving crimes of Serbs against Albanians or Albanians against Serbs fully depends on who of the p r i c k s rules - Clint The P r i c k or Milo The F u c k. Now it's Clinto and his good doggie Hashim Tachi, the professional killer. They need to accuse Serbs to rationalize the atrocities NATO have done and Albanians under NATO regime are doing. Were it Milo, he would have "staged" graves full of Serbs. So don't waste your nerve cells reading papers - they'll never be back.

This here board is for Zoja and Emina, two (or maybe one paranoic?) students of English, who are improving the language, but still have nothing new to say.

I remember these two imbecile girls crying for justice, exhibiting their wounds in public and trying to prove how angry but just they are to the Serbs.

What now, my crazy moslem friends? The swarm of Albanians, unable to produce anything but hatred, has come back. Where's the justice? In the ruined Christian churches? Do you think the justice has come back on the buses with the vengeful Albanians or do you think it has left with the scared s h i t l e s s Serbs? You think the "democratic pilots" (C., J. "The B a s t a r d" Shea) of NATO brought it back on the wings of B52s?

Don't quote the street papers, justice is not in the past. And it's not here now. It can only be in the future, no matter how slim the chances look now.

Only erroneous vengeful a s s h o l e s stop the future from coming.

which future would that be, genius?

What ever your referring to Mr or MRs ONE
I posted a lot of stories from SERBIAN READ WELL SERBIAN FRIENDS must have overlooked them. And btw with sinism you won't come any further with me.
Another thing I don't post newspaperclippings....YES YES did that in the past, cause off p r i c k behaviour respectles s h i t off A board member, but not anymore. No No my friend real stories from real people.No washingtonpost for me

Minus one:-)
No future:-)))))))))))))))

Phil, spare me from the Hrvatska org. (Croatia.org) site, before I go in search of a Yugoslav government information one.

THE BALKANS QUAGMIRE
Successful operation or war crime?
International hearings hold Clinton, Albright, Cohen responsible

---

By Jon Basil Utley
© 1999 WorldNetDaily.com
26 October 1999


NEW YORK -- The Geneva Convention, The United Nations Charter, the
Nuremberg Principles, the Helsinki Accords and the U.S. Constitution
have all been violated by Bill Clinton, Madeleine Albright and William
Cohen, according to charges filed by the Commission of Inquiry of the
International Action Coalition.

Nearly 800 persons participated in the inquiry hearings. Charges are
primarily grouped around those of "starting a war," the "deliberate
targeting of civilian infrastructure" and "violating and destroying the
peacemaking roll of the United Nations."

There are 19 charges detailed in articles and paragraphs from major
international treaties and even the U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10 (for
planning, announcing and executing attacks intended to assassinate
government leaders and selected civilians, e.g. "friends of Milosevic,"
the Yugoslav president). U.S. commanders and NATO/State Department
spokesmen were so ignorant or arrogant about international treaties and
laws, according to the charges, that they even publicly boasted of
highly illegal actions and destruction of non-military civilian
targets. For example, targeting Yugoslav journalists was a violation of
Article 79 of the U.N. Charter. Bombing fertilizer plants and a
cigarette factory was a violation of the Geneva Convention about
hitting non-military targets.

"Inflicting, inciting and enhancing violence between Moslems and Slavs"
was one of the charges. Aggravating conflict between Slavs and Moslems
and injecting U.S. troops for future actions to control Caucasus oil
exports was the argument of committee chairman, Ramsey Clark, former
attorney general and a former marine. He argued that the Orthodox and
Muslim worlds were potential centers of power that could thwart
Washington's "imperialist objectives." It had been pointed out that
Washington purposefully brought in Turkish planes (with no military
necessity) to bomb Serbian Slavs in what could have been an effort to
revive centuries old hatreds from Turkish colonial rule.

Other spokespersons argued all sorts of other economic motives for the
U.S./NATO attack, trying to rationalize a reason for it, from promoting
sales of American weapons to taking over Kosovo's giant Trepca mining
complex.

Roland Keith, one of 1,200 former peace monitors, described his
experiences in Kosovo before all of them were ordered out so NATO could
begin bombing. He said "we were keeping a lid on the violence." He
described how 20 minutes into his first mission an accompanying Serbian
policeman was shot by a KLA (Albanian) sniper. He said the violence
came from Serbs reacting to KLA guerrillas. Keith, a 32-year Canadian
army veteran, is a member of the Federal Council of the New Democratic
Party in Canada. He argued that if Washington had just offered to
remove the economic sanctions against Yugoslavia (which were
contributing to the poverty of Kosovo) an agreement might well have
been reached.

A main argument of many speakers was that the Yugoslav parliament had
already agreed to NATO's key demand for much autonomy and armed U.N.
peacekeepers in Kosovo, before the bombing. It was Washington's
insistence that Serbia allow NATO troops with extraterritorial legal
rights inside Serbia proper that was the stumbling block.

Quoting William Randolph Hearst's old dictum, "You provide the
photographs, and I'll provide the war," speakers decried the media's
feeding frenzy for atrocity stories after the bombing had started.
Speaker and author Michael Parenti argued that it was natural for
refugees to flee the bombing as much as from Serbian atrocities in
areas of KLA activity. Equally the Air Force bombing of a column of
returning refugees was a message, he argued, to the Albanians not to
return until Serbia had surrendered. He quoted the German Foreign
Office Report that there was no ethnic cleansing in Kosovo prior to the
NATO attack, just actions against the KLA guerrillas.

Addressing the question of Serb atrocities, Parenti quoted the New York
Times that there was no proof of a conscious Serb policy of rape --
neither in Bosnia nor Kosovo. However, wartime atrocities were done by
both sides. The "mass graves" found in Kosovo now add up to maybe 200
persons while the supposed 100,000 dead Albanian males of NATO/U.S.
propaganda was just another lie, he said. Brian Becker of the IAC
argued that the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former
Yugoslavia (ICTY) which indicted Milosevic was a "phony, kangaroo court
which only indicted enemies of Washington" and a court for which the
U.N. Charter makes no provision.

Specific allegations of treaty violations by the U.S./NATO operation
are numerous. The prime indictment is that of violating the United
Nations Charter by attacking a sovereign nation that was innocent of
any aggression. NATO also violated Articles 1 and 7 of its own charter
that claim it is a defensive organization, only committed to force if
one or more of its members are attacked. The NATO Treaty also
explicitly recognized "the primary responsibility of the U.N. Security
Council for the maintenance of international peace and security."

Charge No. 6 was "Killing and Injuring a Defenseless Population
Throughout Yugoslavia." This violated the Hague Convention, Art. 22 and
23; Geneva Convention Art. 19; Nuremberg Principle VI a, b, and c; and
the U.S. Constitution, Art 1, Sec 8, cl.II.

David Jacobs of the Canadian Lawyers Group said that Clinton's argument
about justifying military interventions for "humanitarian" reasons
recalled Mussolini's arguments justifying his invasion of Ethiopia
to "save them from slavery," or Hitler's claim of occupying the
Sudetenland "to save Germans from atrocities." It's just the "same old
wolf" of imperialism.

"Starting an Unprovoked War," was the prime charge against the Germans
at Nuremberg that the U.S. used to hang Germans. It is part of the
Nuremberg Principles subscribed to by Washington. William Rockler,
a former Nuremberg prosecutor (Chicago Tribune 5/23), was extensively
quoted in the testimonies.

Charges were divided into three categories. First was against those
nations' leaders that carried out the attack, the U.S., U.K. and
Germany. Second was against those nations which provided bases for the
attack, Italy and Turkey. Third was against those NATO governments that
voted to participate.

Ramsey Clark referred to Spanish pilots who had refused orders to
attack civilian targets. A commission study referred to testimony in
the Spanish newspaper, ARTICULO 20, of Captain Martin de la Hoz,
"Several times our colonel protested to NATO chiefs about why they
select targets which are not military targets.... They are destroying
the country, bombing it with novel weapons, toxic nerve gasses, surface
mines dropped by parachute, bombs containing uranium, black napalm,
sterilization chemicals, spraying to poison crops and weapons of which
even we still do not know anything." The United States and President
Clinton were singled out as the prime motivator for the war and the
"overwhelmingly responsible nation" for its atrocities and legal
violations.

The indictment and package of 15 research reports is available from the
International Action Committee, (212) 633-6646.

oy vey, ms daniela...

this fellow phil submits one site which may not jibe with your view on things, and your response is to pile more on top of your comparatively huge pile?
is no one allowed to xpress an opinion different from your own?
some 'discussion' that is...

We are looking for some independent views, not the
possible propaganda of the sides involved in this Balcan conflicts. You have something clever to say
"Art...", or are you just a representative of "Phill...".

Daniela, to claim, either directly or indirectly, that Human Rights Watch is incapable of being objective is the easy way out. If you have 'objective verifiable evidence' that contradicts their report, present it. Until you are able to do that, their report because of its obvious objectivity and verifiability, stands unchallanged.

It is evidence such as what is presented in their (HRW) report that will stand up against really sharp scrutiny in a court of law. And of course that's all that really matters, isn't it. phil

Phil, Daniela, et. al.,

I've read about half the report and intend to finish it later today, afterwhich I'll have some comments.

In the meantime, I suggest a refresher reading of Diana Johnstone's "Seeing Yugoslavia Through a Dark Glass: Politics, Media, and the Ideology of Globalization" which you'll find posted above in this thread.

Especially the section titled NGOs & NATO, HAND IN HAND, which begins with the following:

>> In former Yugoslavia, and especially in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Western NGOs have found a justifying role for themselves alongside NATO. They gain funding and prestige from the situation. Local employees of Western NGOs gain political and financial advantages over other local people, and "democracy" is not the people’s choice but whatever meets with approval of outside donors. This breeds arrogance among the outside benefactors, and cynicism among local people, who have the choice between opposing the outsiders or seeking to manipulate them. It is an unhealthy situation, and some of the most self-critical are aware of the dangers.19

Perhaps the most effectively arrogant NGO in regard to former Yugoslavia is the Vienna office of Human Rights Watch/Helsinki. <<


Suitboy

Posted without comment.

GLOBAL COLLAPSE AND THE CAPITALIST END-GAME

By R.K. Moore –

Back to Reality - Oct 28, 1999 22:58 (209.161.*) A community will evolve only when the people control their means of communication. -- Frantz Fanon

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

- a dialog about the collapse of the world system - X: "Things

ARE going to change. The current system is going to collapse catastrophically."

Dear X, The 'capitalist system' is our self-appointed 'system governor' - it makes the rules and governs the operation of all of our various 'support systems'. These 'support systems' include the ecosystem, our societal structures, our national economies, and our populations (re: overpopulation, famines, etc). These support systems are not only likely to collapse, but are already collapsing - the process is pretty far along. For example in many parts of Africa, such as Rwanda, the 'total collapse' has already occurred, and a massive die-off of the populations is happening right before our eyes. Atlantic fisheries, which were once the most bountiful in the world, are now essentially non-existent. The national economy of Korea already suffered a 'total collapse'. Whole pieces of our support systems are collapsing, and all pieces of our support systems are deteriorating. In this regard I couldn't agree with you more!

Now let's consider the 'capitalist system' itself. Obviously if the support systems collapse utterly, then capitalism collapses with them. No debate there. I suggest that we think about how the 'end-game' is likely to be played out by the capitalist elite - that top echelon of bankers and planners that guide our global system on behalf of the handful of people who own most of it. How are they likely to deal with the final stages of collapse?

There are really two parts to the capitalist system. The first is the economic system of exploitive development, the second is the political-military system of capitalist elite hegemony. The two support one another, and may seem totally inseparable, but the distinction turns out to be of central importance.

You continue...

...The fortress is going to collapse on its own. The Titanic analogy is not quite accurate. We are going to the bottom because capitalism is blowing holes in the hull. The "corporate elite" are sinking their own ship.

Allow me to rephrase this, making use of the distinctions I've suggested...

The capitalist elite, in pursuing their agenda of exploitive development, are destroying the support systems upon which they, and the rest of us, are dependent. If the process continues unchecked, the support systems will collapse, the economic system will cease operating, and the elite will have sunk the whole ship, including their own command deck.

I hope I haven't distorted your essential meaning, although I've obviously modified the emphasis for the purposes of analysis. (: Non-commercial reposting is encouraged, but please include the sign up through this paragraph and retain any internal credits and copyright notices. Copyrighted materials are posted under "fair-use".

GLOBAL COLLAPSE AND THE CAPITALIST END-GAME

— a dialog about the collapse of the world system by R.K. Moore

A community will evolve only when the people control their means of communication. -- Frantz Fanon

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

X wrote: "Things ARE going to change. The current system is going to collapse catastrophically."

Dear X,

The 'capitalist system' is our self-appointed 'system governor' - it makes the rules and governs the operation of all of our various 'support systems'. These 'support systems' include the ecosystem, our societal structures, our national economies, and our populations (re: overpopulation, famines, etc). These support systems are not only likely to collapse, but are already collapsing - the process is pretty far along. For example in many parts of Africa, such as Rwanda, the 'total collapse' has already occurred, and a massive die-off of the populations is happening right before our eyes. Atlantic fisheries, which were once the most bountiful in the world, are now essentially non-existent. The national economy of Korea already suffered a 'total collapse'. Whole pieces of our support systems are collapsing, and all pieces of our support systems are deteriorating. In this regard I couldn't agree with you more!

Now let's consider the 'capitalist system' itself. Obviously if the support systems collapse utterly, then capitalism collapses with them. No debate there. I suggest that we think about how the 'end-game' is likely to be played out by the capitalist elite - that top echelon of bankers and planners that guide our global system on behalf of the handful of people who own most of it. How are they likely to deal with the final stages of collapse?

There are really two parts to the capitalist system. The first is the economic system of exploitive development, the second is the political-military system of capitalist elite hegemony. The two support one another, and may seem totally inseparable, but the distinction turns out to be of central importance.

You continue, “The fortress is going to collapse on its own. The Titanic analogy is not quite accurate. We are going to the bottom because capitalism is blowing holes in the hull. The ‘corporate elite’ are sinking their own ship.”

Allow me to rephrase this, making use of the distinctions I've suggested.

The capitalist elite, in pursuing their agenda of exploitive development, are destroying the support systems upon which they, and the rest of us, are dependent. If the process continues unchecked, the support systems will collapse, the economic system will cease operating, and the elite will have sunk the whole ship, including their own command deck.

I hope I haven't distorted your essential meaning, although I've obviously modified the emphasis for the purposes of analysis.

At this point, certain historical precedents become relevant. The collapse of Rome, of the Inca empire... in fact the collapse of most previous civilizations. In all these cases, their systems operated according to certain principles of operation, one of the most important being their methods of agriculture and irrigation. When those systems could no longer be supported, the societies could not, or would not, change their methods of operation - and they succumbed. In some cases the regions simply could not support the population levels indefinitely - by any means then known. In other cases, solutions were available - but rigidity of thinking on the part of leadership elites prohibited them from being considered. Instead of responding to the need for change, they buried their heads in the sand and kept right on doing what they were doing until the final end - like Hitler in his bunker moving imaginary divisions on his maps.

Is the capitalist elite operating under such denial delusions? Are they simply burying their head in ticker tape quotes and hiding from the collapse the rest of us can see so clearly? I believe there is considerable evidence to the contrary - evidence that well thought out responses are being deployed, evidence that elite planners are not ignoring the collapse scenario, but instead are preparing to deal with it using drastic methods - methods almost unimaginably diabolical.

Keep in mind that it was only about a century ago that Native Americans were being systematically exterminated - to provide room for capitalist expansion. We may tend to blame it on some kind of wild-west pioneer mentality, but to the land speculators, the railroad builders, and the east-coast bankers, it was a fully-conscious program of business expansion through genocide. I ran across a confidential letter written by Thomas Jefferson, for example, in which he gave advice to an official about how the natives could be most efficiently killed off (it had to do with encouraging them to get into debt.)

Let's look at some of the things the West, especially the US, is doing in African countries such as Rwanda and many of its neighbors. First of all, the IMF has systematically destroyed the economies - in some cases utterly. From this cause alone, large-scale famines began. Then civil strife 'arose'. Indeed strife did 'arise' out of the abysmal economic conditions - but it was helped along with a strong push from US military advisors, and with shiploads of modern Western armaments.

The training emphasis was on 'security operations', which translates into the creation of death-squad militias, much like those in East Timor - which were also US trained. Out of these Western-sponsored civil-wars, further genocide occurred, partly from increased famine due to disorder, and partly from slaughter. No massive 'humanitarian' intervention effort was considered, I suggest, because what was happening is exactly what was intended to happen - genocide is the fundamental agenda being carried out! Hence the corporate global media simply reports these events as unfortunate, unavoidable, due to ancient ethnic hatreds or draughts, etc. etc.

Another thing the IMF and World Bank are doing is dismantling health-care facilities in these parts of Africa. Under IMF structural requirements, the budget for health care is limited to something on the order of $3 per person per year. A new 'philosophy' of health care has been adopted. Under this philosophy professional health care is seen as being an 'elite institution', and the population instead is to depend on untrained lay people to provide their care. Of these events, the elite media is simply silent.

And then there's AIDs. Some people claim to have proof that AIDS was invented via biotech methods for the purposes of genocide. Perhaps. What we do know for sure is that the West is doing nothing to deal with the epidemic in Africa. Pharmaceutical research is aimed at expensive curative treatments, not at the kind of vaccines that would be needed in the African scenario. Nor is the West making any effective effort to spread an understanding about needles and condoms in Africa. Nor is the magnitude of the AIDS epidemic featured in our media. Everyone knows AIDS is a serious problem in the West, and victims are portrayed sympathetically in the media, but Africa is generally ignored. The de-facto Western response to African AIDS is to simply wait for them all to die.

So we have economic collapse, famine, civil war, and no health care - all systematically promoted by the West, and explained away or ignored by the corporate media. And then we have AIDS, with no Western response at all. Does this or does this not add up to a conscious policy of genocide?

What I'm suggesting is that this is one example of how our elite planners are dealing with the collapse scenario. In this case, their thinking can be characterized this way: "Too much population? No problem... let's just pick some groups that aren't contributing much to the global economy and kill them off. There'll be fewer mouths to feed, more land to grow food for the rest of us, and more water to irrigate the crops." Do you perhaps reject that anyone could think that way? Do you think all of the West's systematic actions came from nowhere? When one economy collapsed, or one civil war broke out, it could be counted up to error. Not when it becomes a systematic pattern.

Genocide in Africa represents part of a 'final solution' to the problem of over-population under an economic-growth paradigm. So that the survivors can continue gobbling resources, some will have to be sacrificed. And the ones sacrificed are those who consume the least resources, the ones least responsible for the problems of excessive growth. Such are the ones who contribute least to global economic growth. By the measure of GDP, they simply have no value. Just like the Native Americans and Australian Aboriginals before them.

In Russia - where the birth rate is down, the death rate is up, the economy is in shambles, and famine is an increasing possibility in many regions - we may well be seeing a similar strategy unfolding, even if it isn't carried out quite so thoroughly. A significantly reduced Russian population, with the economy owned by the West, would permit most of Russia's vast resources to be exploited for Western 'needs'.

If any kind of nuclear exchange develops, in the region of India, Pakistan, and China for example, that could used to accomplish a great deal of additional genocide all at once. In such a scenario, management of media would be absolute, and whole cities or regions could be annihilated (using neutron weapons which kill people and leave resources intact) without us hearing about it. The full magnitude of such a war might only reach the light of day much later. Most people in the US, for example, have no idea of the magnitude of the genocidal suffering caused by the Iraqi sanctions, nor the extent of damage in Yugoslavia.

I am not claiming that these kinds of genocidal policies are an effective (albeit abhorrent) solution to the collapse scenario. What I am suggesting is that the elite are not ignoring the collapse crisis, but instead are taking drastic measures of various kinds in conscious response to that crisis. They may be reckless drivers, but they are endeavoring intelligently to steer around the obstacles in their path. They are awake, not asleep - even if they are demonic. We need to pay closer attention to how they are playing this 'end game'.

You continue, “That the corporate fortress is desperate can been seen in its ‘humanitarian’ bombing in Yugoslavia and its continuing depraved sanctions against the people of Iraq. The corporate empire's production expansion is faltering and it is turning more and more to an economy based on military consumption.”

The arms industry is certainly a major segment of the economy, but it is not growing at a rate - even with these recent adventures - to make a qualitative difference in the overall problem of glutted global markets. Instead, I suggest that your examples reveal other objectives - objectives which have more payoff than simply the military-related profits.

In the case of Iraq, I've already suggested that the genocidal sanctions are part of a 'final solution' to the over-population problem. In addition, keeping Iraqi oil off the market leads to many billions of dollars of increased profits to the oil TNCs - far more significant than the arms-industry profits from Desert Storm itself. And after Saddam is finally ousted, the devastated nation will provide profits from re-development, as in Russia, and will be brought under the control of the IMF so that its resources can be systematically bled dry by outside 'investors' and the West.

Because drastic actions have been undertaken, you conclude that the "corporate fortress is desperate". I suggest instead that the "corporate fortress" is revealing the extent to which it will go in defending itself, and the deviousness with which it is capable of pursuing its objectives. It would indeed reveal desperation, if the military payoff was their only benefit from these escapades. But they're not. A deeper game is being played.

The collapse of Southeast Asian economies was the result of a speculator raid on the currencies - combined with an inappropriate but predictable response from the state banks. The IMF rushed in and systematically destroyed the economies. At first glance this economic crisis may look like a "hole in the ship" of global capitalism - evidence for its collapse. But I suggest it is simply one more conscious drastic action, aimed at maintaining the Western-based "corporate fortress". By intentionally bankrupting Asian economies, two benefits were obtained. Their productive assets could be purchased at pennies on the dollar by Western interests, and their production output was taken off the glutted global markets. The whole operation was an effective project aimed at providing growth room for Western TNCs in the short run, and at reducing the region to the status of colonial dependency - facilitating resource confiscation in the long run.

Putting this all together, we can see that one of the strategic elite responses to the environmental-collapse scenario is to return to a drastic version of Western imperialism. The third world (to which new nations are being added every day) is to simply be milked dry so that the West can continue longer in its consumptive growth mode. Poverty, disease, famine - and outright genocide - are all totally acceptable if they facilitate this milking-dry process.

Population growth in the West itself is relatively stable and manageable - so to our elite leaders there is no immediate crisis of over-population! "Billions of 'them' will die - so what? Like dinosaurs and Aboriginals, they didn't adapt. Such is life. Their women shouldn't have had so many kids. It's their own fault." If you think this can't happen, then just consider the response of Western publics to the genocide already going on. They don't even know it's happening, or else they shrug it off with a shallow rationalization, handily provided by the media.

At a more systematic level, elite planners have set up institutions which are actively measuring and quantifying all of the Earth's resources, creating an 'end game' budget of resources. They're using the latest satellite technology to map every water source, every acre of arable land, every mineral site, etc. These can be correlated with population data, consumption statistics, and other databases, so as to work out an accurate time-sequence of the end-game of our support systems - based on current trends. You might say they're making a multi-dimensional video of the end of the world.

Most assuredly, our capitalist leaders are not asleep at the wheel. They are not going to retire to the first-class Titanic deck and fatalistically watch their video while the water pours in. They're going to use this information to figure out which populations should be culled when, so as to keep the West on its consumption binge for as long as possible. As regards petroleum for example, the IMF has already set prices at a level where many parts of the third world can no longer afford to use it for transportation, and hence remaining supplies are being channeled toward the West and the other remaining industrialized nations. Our leaders have demonstrated conclusively that they will use whatever means are necessary to implement whatever measures are deemed advantageous by their spreadsheet analysis. No sacrifice is too great to insure the survival of capitalism, as long as someone else pays the price.

In Canada, I'm sure you're aware of the controversy regarding water rights. As part of a global water-consolidation program - the result no doubt of the kind of resource surveys described above - initiatives have been launched to privatize water resources globally, and to modify the rules by which water resources are allocated. The scheme in Canada seems to be aimed at stealing Canada's water, and making it available to US agribusiness - possibly to alleviate the effects of climate changes expected from global warming. As water is confiscated by such means in the third world, most likely to be used to irrigate corporate plantations, we can expect massive famines as a direct consequence. These no doubt will be reported in the media as being the result of 'drought' - sad, but unavoidable. Again, drastic measures - but diabolical and effective - not desperate.

You said, “We must plan for the collapse of the economic commons and prepare to refill the social commons as fast as we can.”

What I've been trying to show is that this strategy is inappropriate. The way the scenario is being played out, it will take longer than you think to reach a point where we in the West are likely to experience a full collapse of the economic commons. Long before that - if we wait in the wings - we will have permitted global human suffering on a scale that would make the Holocaust look insignificant by comparison. If we believe that the 'average German' was in any way morally culpable for Nazism, then we must similarly judge ourselves today. Especially if we are aware of the death camps, such as exist already in Iraq and Rwanda. We cannot wait in the wings, or at least I certainly hope we don't.

But even if we set that aside - and say that unfortunately we can do nothing for 'them' - there is no guarantee that the economic commons in the West will ever fully collapse. We may get skin cancer from no ozone, some of our coastal cities may be flooded due to global warming, and we will surely have to give up automobiles - and yet our economic commons may continue to function.

At our current phase of the end-game, drastic measures have been taken and effective results obtained - room has been created for the West to continue its consumptive growth for longer than we would have otherwise predicted. Comprehensive surveys are being made, so that these kinds of system manipulations can be strategically timed to best effect. New media rationales for military intervention are being artfully developed (Yugoslavia, East Timor) - and have been institutionalized in the Clinton Doctrine. This assures that a heavy hand will be available in support of future system adjustments.

They are learning as they go, trying out ideas, looking at the results, learning from their mistakes. Weapons systems are being refined, propaganda techniques polished, destabilization programs perfected, and economic consequences carefully charted. The end-game is being dealt with like a modern engineering project. It took such a project only a few years to develop the atom bomb, and only ten years to get a man on the moon. The end-game project has been going on for, I'd estimate, about twenty years. With Reagan and Thatcher you can see the groundwork being laid to create the kind of centralized global control that is necessary to play such a game. I'd say we're pretty far into the end-game project already, and that it is at a fairly mature stage of effectiveness.

We simply cannot afford to let this game take its course. Too many people will be sacrificed before they 'come for us' in the West. Of course they are already coming for some of 'us', as we can see with all the homeless, those without medical care, and in our soaring prison populations. But these circumstances are not perceived by most as being a collapse of the economic commons.

One of our problems is that we continually lower our expectations as our conditions worsen. When I was a kid it would have been shocking and horrifying to know there was a homeless family in our neighborhood. It would have been in the newspapers, and some kind of accommodation would have been found - or they might have been arrested as vagrants - but they wouldn't have been left on the streets. It would have been publicly unacceptable. Now we pass by daily and simply avoid their glance. From my perspective, our economic commons has collapsed - it has collapsed to a level I consider outrageously unacceptable - but our consensus perception seems to define this level as being 'still operating'.

At some point we must adjust our expectations upwards. Otherwise we may rationalize our way to being the last slave serving the last ear of corn to the last capitalist, grateful to the end that our own economic commons had not yet collapsed. There will never be any defining moment of collapse here in the West - not if we continue to adjust ourselves to planned incremental degradation. In this way, waiting for the collapse of the economic commons becomes almost equivalent to those millennial cults, who wait for flying saucers or second comings. It becomes a way to buffer ourselves from the unacceptability of the reality around us, and a way to forgive ourselves for not being able to do anything about it.

--- This ungodly endgame scenario can be challenged only if we stand up and claim our humanity and collectively demand to control our own destinies and those of our communities and societies. And, as they say on some Pink Floyd track, you will 'hear no starting gun', instead 'ten years will pass' and we'll find ourselves accepting conditions that today would have us all out on the streets.

The defining moment can only come from inside ourselves. We must decide we've had enough. And if we can't do that now, I suggest, there's no reason to see why it will be any different later.

Which brings us back to your point about a need-to-plan mindset. Yes, we need to begin planning immediately to rebuild the social commons! But instead of planning for a post-collapse commons, let's begin building that commons right now - and let's call that commons a 'grass-roots revolutionary movement' (for a democratic renaissance?). For activists, I suggest, our greatest 'need to plan' is in the area of how-to-get-the-movement-started. We can't wait to agree on ideology first - harmonizing agendas must be part of the movement process. There is nothing to wait for - whenever we're ready we can begin. The job only becomes more difficult the

longer we wait.

Richard K. Moore

cj@cyberjournal.org a political discussion forum. crafted in Ireland by rkm (Richard K. Moore)

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Sorry for the double posting. The complete article didn't make it the first time.

Suitboy

From Jared Israel at Emperors-clothes.com ** PLEASE FORWARD

My dear friends,

Many people have expressed concern over the shutting down of emperors-clothes.com, so I'm writing you all this note. First let me tell you what I
personally have been up to the past few days. I am writing you from the offices of Global Reflexion in Amsterdam. In Holland there is great and
growing concern over the involvement of Dutch KFOR troops in the imprisonment of a large number of Serbian residents in the Kosovo town of
Orahovac.

Saturday, Cedda Prlncevic, the leader of Pristina's Jewish community, who were driven from Kosovo by the KLA (UCK), and I were among the
speakers who addressed a large meeting opposing the on-going attack on Kosovo Serbs. I cannot tell you how encouraged I am by the passion of
the reserved Dutch when they learn the facts about what Dutch troops have been doing in Kosovo.

Cedda spoke before me. Nico Varkevisser from Global Reflexion, which sponsored Cedda and my trip to the Netherlands, had pressed Cedda to
talk specifically about how KFOR's presence has affected ordinary Serbs. And he tried; but as he spoke, the pain of what has been done to the
citizens of Serbia, of all nationalities, overwhelmed him, and he broke down on the stage. He was given a standing ovation.

I spoke next, about Cedda's experiences and those of the women from Orahovac, who have been interviewed by Emperors Clothes. We are
currently transcribing those interviews.

The story of their suffering, of the literal imprisonment of the Serbian population of Orahovac, tremendously affected the hundreds of people at the
meeting, and people are taking action. There is tremendous energy here. We have scheduled already 5 or 6 radio, newspaper and TV interviews -
the Dutch media has been calling Global Reflexion to invite me to speak about what the Dutch troops have done to the Serbs in Orahovac. It seems
the media in Holland has not been fully consolidated into the US/German Empire.

This is a country where Nazi occupation was once greeted with a General Strike. This is a country whose government has shamefully lied - claiming
the Dutch troops are bringing multi-ethnic life to Kosovo. This is a blot on the honor and decency of the Dutch. There is a great potential here FOR
resistance to the horrific policies of NATO.

Global Reflexion is demanding the women whom we nterviewed, all of whom are from Orahovac but who presently live in Belgrade, be brought to
Holland, at the expense of the Dutch government to testify before the Dutch Parliament. Global Reflexion has called for a delegation of leading Dutch
citizens to go to Orahovac and bring out the Serbs who want to leave. The Statement posted below describes how Dutch NATO forces have
FORCIBLY PREVENTED Serbs from fleeing Orahovac. This includes children, turned back when the women whom we interviewed managed to
get to the city to bring them out. The Dutch troops said: "Nein" which is not a word customarily used in Holland.

The Dutch movement is demanding: Save the Children of Orahovac! The Dutch delegation will go to Kosovo, to Orahovac, and bring out the Serbs.
Let us see how the people here respond if the liars in the Dutch government try to stop them.

I spoke at the meeting Saturday afternoon. Saturday night the emperors-clothes.com website was shut down. Repeated email to the people at
Internet Web Designs, our "service" provider, has been fruitless. First they did not answer until Monday night (making it too late for us to find an
alternate provider on Monday). And when they did answer, their reply was absurd - they claimed a small payment, which we had sent days ago,
was never received. They had no explanation why we were not contacted BEFORE the site was shut down (though they managed to shut it down,
apparently late Saturday night!) or why they failed to respond to our email. I think it is reasonable to speculate that there has been US government
pressure to silence the site.

Anyone wishing to protest this may send email to emperors-clothes through me at @aol.com">jaredi@aol.com

Hopefully we will have emperors-clothes up and running by Tuesday night, Eastern US time.

I will try to arrange to publish the Orahovac interviews on www.antiwar.com as soon as they are transcribed, so you can read them there, hopefully,
by Tuesday night or Wed morning, Eastern US time.

Below is a statement in English and Serbo-Croatian, written by Cedda Prlncevic, Niko Varkevisser from Global Reflexion and me.

STATEMENT - ENGLISH

I ACCUSE: KFOR TERROR IN KOSOVO

Statement by Cedomir Prlincevic, edited by Nico Varkevisser of Global Reflexion and Jared Israel of Emperors-clothes.com

I appreciate very much the invitations from Global Reflexion to address the Meeting on "Terror in Kosovo" held last night in Amsterdam, and the
invitation from "Association Dialogue" to address the Conference tomorrow on "NATO's Humanitarian War and the New World Order". I was very
much moved by the reception of the large, and more important, motivated group whom I addressed in Amsterdam. I very much regret, due to the
breakdown of our automobile, that I cannot address the Conference in Paris. I have therefore written this statement, with the participation of Mr.
Israel and Mr. Varkevisser.

For months people in the West, and also, through satellite transmission, those of us in Yugoslavia, have been bombarded with Western media claims
that NATO, that is the US and Germany, want to create, in Kosovo, a multiethnic, democratic society. The disadvantage of citizens of Serbia in
dealing with NATO is that we tend to believe that other people mean what they say. And therefore I and others in Pristina believed that when
KFOR, that is NATO, marched into Kosovo, they would protect the rights of Serbs and other non-Albanians.

The KFOR troops and the UCK crossed the border into Kosovo together; they came down the roads together; they entered Pristina together.
Immediately the UCK and gangster elements under their leadership took over government institutions and fanned out, going after the homes of
non-Albanians and pro-Yugoslav Albanians. I lived in a large complex of nice apartments inhabited by doctors, lawyers, university professors,
managers of various institutions, the intellectual core of Pristina society. Right after KFOR arrived, the gangster elements attacked this section, called
Milana. They moved up and down through the buildings, banging on doors, breaking down doors, throwing tear gas into people's apartments,
forcing them out on pain of death.

The Western media claims that KFOR has been "unable" to control the action of "mysterious gangs" who unfortunately have targeted Serbs, nor
have they the manpower needed to prevent ethnic Albanians from Kosovo from exacting revenge. This is simply untrue. For one thing, the Albanians
who attacked our apartment complex spoke a dialect that made it clear they were from Albania, not from Kosovo.

When the Albanians attacked, one of my neighbors (a doctor) called KFOR. An English Major arrived with his squad. But the Albanians did not
flee. I spoke to this Major. I asked him why the didn't do anything. He said "This is a job for the Civil Authorities." But you see, by then there were
no civil authorities other than the UCK.

He said KFOR was only interested in cases of murder. I showed him documents, confirming that I was the President of the Jewish community in
Pristina. He replied: "Later." He didn't have time to examine these papers. While the Major and his squad were there - before their eyes - the
gangsters continued their work. In some cases, when residents appealed to these British KFOR troops, the KFOR people took the part of modern
day Solomons. The Albanians explained their plight: "We have no place to stay tonight." You see they felt themselves to be victims of a housing
shortage. So the KFOR people said, "Why don't you share this apartment amongst yourselves!" - in other words, the gangsters were to move in with
the prey. SO KFOR left, the Albanians moved in, and then the Albanians said, "Now leave or we will slaughter you."

Under these circumstances, who would stay? We lost everything, years of our lives - our lives, and our community, the only place we can ever be at
home - gone. Stolen.

About 30,000 people were driven from this huge complex in Milana in a matter of days. I have had to flee to tiny quarters in Belgrade, I and my
family, including my 81 year old mother.

The Jewish community in Pristina existed by fortuitous accident. During World War II the ethnic Albanian fascists in alliance with Italian and then
German forces shot some local Jews. Then they arrested the rest and shipped them, in stages, to death camps. One large trainload of Jews took a
wrong turn and got stalled several days at a train station, and was liberated by the Russian Army. My family thus exists only by virtue of error; but
my 81-year-old mother, alive through this accident of fate, now has to face the destruction of her life, of all our lives. I personally was Chief Archivist
in Pristina, and now at 61 years of age, what am I to do? What are any of us to do?

The behavior of a large part of the Albanian population was terrible. They lied to support the NATO campaign of lies, inventing tales of harassment
and mass executions. Secretly, and then openly, they supported the UCK. These people would never have done such terrible things were it not for
years of encouragement from two centers - the United States and Germany. Albanian culture unfortunately includes a strong strain of intolerance; it
also has a powerful Clan structure which puts Clan leaders in a dictatorial position.

These two cultural traits have been utilized by NATO to provide foot soldiers for modern-day fascism, complete with a liberal rhetorical cover.

Emperors-Clothes.com recently interviewed some women from Orahovac. This town is well- known in the West because Albanian blockades kept
out Russian KFOR troops. These interviews are partly transcribed and will be published this week (before Nov. 1) at Emperors-Clothes.com. I find
them most instructive regarding KFOR's claims. Keep in mind, this sector is controlled by Dutch and German troops under German command.
Under German command.

The women interviewed are Orahovac natives who had previously moved to Belgrade or who escaped from Orahovac after the arrival of KFOR.
Their phone lines were destroyed by NATO bombing. Then Yugoslav radio and TV facilities were bombed, so the population in Orahovac was
effectively cut off from Yugoslav information sources. But Western media, especially Voice of America, got through. VOA broadcast a clear
message: "We are fighting to guarantee a multiethnic, democratic Kosovo. When we come in, we will disarm the UCK. And we will protect all
groups."

So the Serbs and Roma and other minorities in Orahovac felt reassured. They felt that perhaps there would be problems, but basically, the West
only wanted military bases, apart from that they would prefer Orahovac to have a normal life. The minority population of Serbs and Roma would
naturally be protected. Why wouldn't KFOR want to protect them? It's only normal. Now, say the women that we interviewed, they realize their
error. They made the same mistake I and the other Pristina Jews made. That is, they miscalculated what was Natural for NATO.

On the morning of the day KFOR came into Orahovac, their representatives met with leading Serbs, including the Mayor. They told the leaders: the
UCK will be disarmed and everyone will be protected. That day KFOR marched in - and with them in marched the UCK. Realizing that they had
been betrayed many Serbs and Roma living among ethnic Albanians fled, moving into the Serbian part of town. Those who remained in the mixed
part were kidnapped; their fates are unknown.

Immediately, the UCK forces started to take over and loot and burn the homes of Serbs living in the mixed neighborhoods. Did KFOR do the
normal thing for an army of occupation in a town under Martial Law? Did they send trucks with loudspeakers warning that looters and arsonists
would be shot? Did they create some examples, arresting and jailing arsonists? Did they track down kidnappers and arrest them? Did they establish
a massive presence on the streets, shooting looters and arsonists?

No. They occupied strategic parts of the town. They did nothing to stop the attacks on Serbs and their property. When Serbs saw KFOR troops
patrolling they would ask: "What are you going to do to help us?" They were told: "We don't have the men to guard every house or every Serb." No,
they had the forces to do nothing.

One of the interviewed women saw an Albanian starting to torch a Serb's home and stopped a Dutch KFOR soldier. "Please! Do something." The
man was a decent person - he was visibly distressed. "I have to call headquarters for instruction," he said, or words to that effect. He checked with
his superiors and then told our correspondent: "I was ordered to do nothing." But even his limited concern was too much for the Dutch commanders
- he was never seen again patrolling the Serbian area. He had been corrupted: he questioned existing orders. The women whom Emperors-Clothes
interviewed did notice that KFOR forces were constantly shuffled lest these politically naive people become infected with human decency, a
dangerous contact disease.

The women report that shortly after occupation, the Serbs, who had guns because of the old Yugoslav strategy of arming the population against
foreign invasion, were forcibly disarmed by Dutch and German KFOR troops. The Mayor of Orahovac, who happened to be a Serb, the local
Serbian doctor and 4 others were arrested for "War Crimes" and taken to jail. And then the torture of an entire population began.

There are two levels of containment in Orahovac. There is the inner control, manned by Dutch and German troops, with a roadblock that controls
entry to the Serbian part of town. And then there is the outer control, with Albanian -manned roadblocks and roving bands of terrorists. If a Serb
tries to slip out of the city, he simply disappears, and God help him.

The Western media has written about the Albanian roadblocks. Albanians who supposedly suffered abuses at the hands of Serbian forces
supposedly set them up. These Albanians supposedly heard about the imminent Russian takeover in Orahovac and, fearful that the Russians would
protect Serbian war criminals, they spontaneously set up the roadblocks.

In fact, the Albanian roadblocks can only operate with the connivance and participation of the Dutch and German KFOR troops that control the city.
The roadblocks have tents with weapons - in violation of the UN so-called Peace agreement, under which UCK forces were to have turned in their
weapons. They have electric lines running to these tents; the lines require KFOR approval.

KFOR is simply creating a smokescreen: the UCK blockades are really KFOR blockades to keep out the Russians. After all, the Russians might
challenge the ghettoization of the Serbs and Roma.

If Serbs try to get into Orahovac to visit their relatives, as our correspondents tried, they are subjected to humiliation and risk. The Yugoslav
government, pressed by relatives of the Serbian residents of Orahovac, has organized two trips to Orahovac. Let me briefly relate some of what the
interviewed women experienced on these trips. The second trip was a few weeks ago. A group of Serbian women were, by agreement between the
Yugoslav government and KFOR, escorted to the KFOR roadblock. There they were questioned, photographed and searched for three hours.
They were forced to submit to extreme indignities, including body searches which decency prevents me from describing. They told Emperors-clothes
that nobody ever heard of such things in undemocratic Yugoslavia; they only witnessed such measures in US gangster movies. But you see, life is
imitating American art.

After being strip-searched they were allowed into the Ghetto. They were allowed to stay only three hours to visit their relatives. Before the trip they
had been permitted to phone these relatives for only one minute per week. 1 minute.

The three hours were paid for by the treatment they had received at the roadblocks. They were told: you will be permitted to bring NO ONE out.
Nevertheless, a large number of children appeared at the church where the women were to be picked up by KFOR and returned to the checkpoint.
The children were sent by parents desperate to save them from this horrid situation. Life in the Ghetto had deteriorated. Food was scarce. Water
was occasional. Electric power was unreliable or nonexistent. There were no regular phones. It was dangerous - literally risking death - to step out
of the house onto the street and you never knew when the knock would come at the door. In desperation the parents sent a large number of
children. KFOR did not, apparently, want a scene at the church. They want desperately to avoid KFOR casualties so they have to be careful, even
with disarmed people. They could scratch and bite. So they allowed the children to go with the women back to the checkpoint.

At the checkpoint the Dutch Major was in charge. He said: "Only those who came in may leave!" The women told Emperors-Clothes that their
identification papers had been photographed when they were searched, so KFOR knew exactly who was a proper visitor and who was not, making
it impossible for any of the women to change places with relatives.

"Only those who came in may leave! The children must go home." Home! It was, the women say, a scene from hell: the children, terrified, crying, the
women yelling and protesting to the Dutch troops…You see, that is the problem with these Serbs. They will not simply lie down and die. They are
disobedient Jews!

Albanians were milling around. You see, while the Serbs were detained and searched for 3 hours, Albanians could simply drive past the checkpoint
without stopping. They waved to the KFOR troops and sailed by, sometimes chanting "NA-TO! NA-TO! NA-TO!" The Dutch Major became
increasingly impatient. Finally he said: "You may leave with these children but we will not guarantee your protection. No armed escort."

No armed escort. What could this mean? Only that an unfortunate incident was to occur and these women and children would disappear. Then
perhaps after witnessing the death of their elders the children would be brought back to Orahovac. They would tell people about the terrible deaths
of the adults. The idea would be to terrify and therefore paralyze Serbs and Roma. Moreover, the children would provide, by their very presence, a
guarantee against rebellion by the adults. Or perhaps all would simply disappear. Still, the women protested.

What IS wrong with these Serbs? The Major's patience had its limits. "Enough!" he roared. "The children will go back and you will leave!" And so
the women and children were seperated, and the children were forced to go home.

Recently I was interviewed for the second time by Emperors-clothes.com and during that interview I tried to communicate to the interviewers why
the Albanians left for Macedonia and Albania during the war. I told the interviewers they didn't understand the significance of certain features of
modern Albanian culture. It is very closed off, very self-oriented, and very much under the control of the leaders of Clans. The word 'clans' is not
used here simply to describe a formal structural feature of Albanian society. Quite the contrary, clans are the actual, functioning social unit of vast
numbers of Albanians.

During the bombing, my neighbor, an ethnic Albanian, left. And I said to him why are you leaving? We're not getting killed in this housing
development, we're all helping each other, and we're all together in the air raid shelter - why are you leaving? And he just looked at me, and he said,
"I have to. I've been told to leave now. Everyone will be leaving now."

And that was that. This man and his wife, who were sophisticated intellectuals, whose children played with the Serbian children, whom I had
considered to be friends - they were leaving.

Many opponents of the war thought the UCK was making a big mistake by terrorizing Albanians. But it wasn't making a mistake. It was making a
point to the clan leaders: we have the backing of NATO and we will kill Albanians who buck us. Given the existence of anti-Serb racism among
Albanians, this we're-the-winning-team argument brought the leaders into line.

Huge numbers of Albanians left Kosovo during the bombing. They did not leave because Serbs were slaughtering them, which was a made-up story.
They did not leave because they were getting bombed; though they were getting bombed. They left because they were told to leave by their clan
leaders.

Vast numbers of people from all over the world have protested the bombing of Yugoslavia. In doing so they have created a movement out of the
political shambles of our world. And yet it is now, after the cessation of bombing, that we have entered the worst hell. This terrible fascist-like
invasion has created far worse suffering than the bombing. Some are driven out, some disappear, some are murdered and their murders attributed to
forces beyond NATO's control. Some, like the Serbs and Roma of Orahovac, have been imprisoned in a new Warsaw Ghetto.

I urge those who care about Justice not to remain silent.