lady emina!
as is said in the vernacular...
YOU GO, GIRL!

L'menexe

" OK, so there was a conference held in -the soon to be independent republic of-Montenegro (with it's more open and democratic organizations under the leadership of that well-known democrat, Djukanovic...which was sponsored by that other well-known democratic organization - OSCE - for the purpose of providing those terribly misguided and brainwashed Serb media folks with a forum to
publically recant and confess their sins and thereby be made whole again. "

T'gunn, it matters not one whit who sponsors the forum. If one decides to attend such a forum of their peers, knowing that there are going to be 'slings and arrows' a'plenty, one doesn't get "out of the saddle" half way through the ride.

One hunkers down and gives as good as one gets, which will result in the respect of ones peers. If one does it with dignity, class and style they'll hoist you on their shoulders as a hero. phil

" Give me a good old-fashioned opinionated writer any day. Someone with courage, who's willing to express succintly and to the point what is on his/her mind. That, I can respect. But this wishy-washy, namby-pamby-lets-be-fair-and- objective-and-non-partisan kind of writing is about as appealing as the velvet glove of NATO's neo-nazism. "

Hmmmmm, so you like your bias to be well-slanted! Well, fair enough. ;o) phil

" The Spanish experts say they were told they'd be performing 2000 autopsies; in fact they were shown only 187 bodies, less than 10%. About half these people had died when NATO bombed the Dubrava prison in Istok, in Kosovo. (Based on autopsies, the Spaniards concluded that most of the people who died at the prison were killed by shrapnel; some were shot trying to escape after the bombing.) "

OK, now lets just pause here a moment and reflect. Their claimes aside, the Spanish forensic scientists examined 187 bodies at the Dubrava prison and Jared Israel wants his reader to conclude that no genocide took place anywhere in Kosovo.

" Military spokesman Col. Konrad Freytag said the building in Istok had been shown on the military planners' target list as a disused prison. (Birmingham Post, May 25, 1999) "

Nor did he deny that the prison was a staging area. And if indeed 'disued' why so many bodies lying around with schrapnel wounds?

" So then why, may I ask, were the Spanish forensic scientists told to look for evidence of Serbian war crimes at Istok "

They were told to 'look,' for, not that they 'had to' find.

" Given that NATO had publicly admitted bombing the prison, why weren't the Spanish scientists told to look for NATO war crimes? "

Simply because no one including Freytag emphatically ruled out the prison as a staging area as asserted by NATO.

" Of course, one can only get the "impression" that these people were shot by "the Serbs" for refusing to leave their homes if one accepts that they were members of families whom "the Serbs" had ordered to leave. But how could the scientists know this? They could only 'know it' from witnesses. "

They "could only" 'know it' from witnesses" Well why didn't they just say so? If they did, it's an odd omission by Israel.

I don't think I need to further analyze this article to be able to appropriately label it as drivel. phil

By tommygunns on Wednesday, October 6, 1999 - 11:31 pm:
L'menexe,

Careful, she's trying to suck-up to you now.

Tgunns
*** oh boy if you only knew how long l'em and i know eachother already.

Re: PhilTR's

Actually, no genocide took place anywhere in Kosovo.
And that's period. Using this word is hysterical.
Military spokesman Col. Konrad Freytag said the building in Istok had been shown on the military planners' target list as a disused prison. (Birmingham Post, May 25, 1999)
Under what name the Chinese Embassy was served on the target list? The guard dog kennel of the future construction site? He. Keeping in mind that Baron Munhgausen Shea, I wouldn't be surprised.
All in all, posts of the said person remind me of the posts of another one, that used to react this way:
- NATO bombed the gynecaeological clinic.
- Definitely, Serbs had a lot to hide in it, if NATO did that!
- NATO busted albanian tractors.
- Sure, it's further atrocities of the Serb air force.
- But the Serb AF is no longer in the air.
- Why?! Dead obvious they repainted it USAF!
etc..
Warning: too much coffee anan may impair mental abilities.

Uwheeeeeeeeee! the natives are restless!!!

Just a reminder, lest you all forget:

1. The only multi-ethnic entity in the former SFRY IS Serbia.

2. The only entity in the former SFRY with anything approaching an independent media IS Serbia.

3. Croatia is a fascist neo-nazi statelet.

4. Bosnia is a thoroughly discredited, corrupt NATO dictated protectorate.

5. Kosovo is rapidly following in Bosnia's footsteps and becoming a totally racist, ethnically cleansed dictatorship under NATO protection.

6. Macedonia is a basket case of neurotic anxiety over a looming Greater Albania.

7. Montenegro is a gangster's paradise and as an independent statelet should get along quite well with NATO and it's neo-fascist NGO's - all paid for by the U.S. taxpayer.

8. Emina & L'menexe may or may not have a thing going on. She's somewhat coy about it, stating "oh boy if you only knew how long l'em and i know eachother already."

tommygunns

L'menexe,

Poseur, guilty capitalist, suitboy?? You are too funny. :O)) :O)) :O)) Your twisted-panty response is worth 3 double chins.

tommygunns

" Give me a good old-fashioned opinionated writer any day. Someone with courage, who's willing to express succintly and to the point what is on his/her mind. That, I can respect. But this wishy-washy, namby-pamby-lets-be-fair-and- objective-and-non-partisan kind of writing is about as appealing as the velvet glove of NATO's neo-nazism. "

Hmmmmm, so you like your bias to be well-slanted! Well, fair enough. ;o) phil

So, Phil, in your brave NWOspeak having an opinion is called a bias?

tommygunns

Phil,

Did you miss this part?

FOR CHRIST SAKES, OPEN YER EYES!! IT'S STALINIST RUSSIA!!

••••••• western idiots have spent 50 years fearing the communists - NOW YOU ARE THEM!!!


tommygunns

Phil,

Did you miss this part? Do you agree? Is this what your govenment should be doing?

From your NYT article. Did you miss this part? Do you think these kinds of activities are acceptable for the US government? Along with interference with electronic communications systems, jamming local radio and television broadcasting, and hacking international banking and wire transfer operations?

>> For the Americans, the war against Milosevic continues. The Clinton administration has said it is creating a "ring around Serbia" of sponsored media, much of it radio or television, from
Bosnia and Montenegro, with more Serbian-language programs from Radio Free Europe and Voice of America.

It is helping the Vreme-like weekly magazine Reporter, published in Bosnia, to enter the Serbian market at a discount price. <<

tommygunns

PROUD DANIELA GROUPIE

l'l che, jr.

":0|

By PhilTR on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 12:05 pm:

>> "The Spanish experts say they were told they'd be performing 2000 autopsies; in fact they were shown only 187 bodies, less than 10%. About half these people had died when NATO bombed the Dubrava prison in Istok, in Kosovo. (Based on autopsies, the Spaniards concluded that most of the people who died at the prison were killed by shrapnel; some were shot trying to escape after the bombing.) "

OK, now lets just pause here a moment and reflect. Their claimes aside, the Spanish forensic scientists examined 187 bodies at the Dubrava prison and Jared Israel wants his reader to conclude that no genocide took place anywhere in Kosovo.

JI DOES NOT say that.

>>I don't think I need to further analyze this article to be able to appropriately label it as drivel. phil


Neat little seque out of having to do any REAL analysis, Phil. Cheap, really really cheap.

tommygunns

Phil,

Here's the latest from your favorite Original Sources analyst, Mary Mostert.

L'menexe,

FYI - you may disregard. It's just another gratuitous yank-bashing article without intellectual merit

=================================================

Do We Now Have a "Peaceful, United, Democratic Europe" In the Balkans?
African Delegates at UN Challenge Clinton’s "humanitarianism" claim
By Mary Mostert, Analyst, Original Sources, (www.originalsources.com)

September 22, 1999

On March 27th President Clinton explained why we were bombing Yugoslavia in the following words: "The time to put out a fire is before it spreads and burns down the neighborhood. By acting now, we're taking a strong step toward a goal that has always been in our national interest -- a peaceful, united, democratic Europe. For America there is no greater calling than being a peacemaker. But sometimes you have to fight in order to end the fighting."

So, now NATO is in control in Kosovo, and has been since the Yugoslav army withdrew in mid-June. How are we doing in creating a "peaceful, united, democratic" state in Kosovo?

In three months over 90% of the Serbs, most of the Gypsies, Jews, Turk, Egyptians and even about 100,000 ethnic Albanians who lived in Kosovo are now refugees having fled to the "undemocratic" Serbia because they feared they would be killed in KFOR controlled Kosovo.

The world was told, many times, that President Clinton’s concern in Kosovo were humanitarian in nature. On May 6th, speaking to a group of refugees from Kosovo at a Refugee Reception Center in Ingelheim, Germany, Clinton said: "Let me begin by thanking Chancellor Schroeder, the representatives of his government who are here and all the people of Germany for their strong, strong leadership in NATO, in defense of the people of Kosovo and for making this place of refuge and shelter for people in need. "

Hmm-m. How many Serb, Montenegrin, Jewish, Goran, Gypsy, Turk and Egyptian refugees from Kosovo, something like 90% of the Kosovo minorities, are being cared for in German camps today? I haven’t found any signs that ANY of the fleeing minoritiy Kosovars are fleeing to Germany - or other nations. They all seem to be fleeing to Slobadon Milosevic’s un-democratic Serbis.

"It is very important that every freedom-loving person in the entire world know the story of Kosovo." Clinton told the refugees. "It is important that people not forget that what is called ethnic cleansing is not some abstract idea; it is real people with real families and real dreams being uprooted from their homes, their schools, their work, their children, their parents, their husbands and wives. NATO has acted in Kosovo because we believe ethnic cleansing must be opposed, resisted, reversed. We are doing all we can to bring aid to the victims of the violence."

Freedom loving persons? How about the freedom of all of Kosovo’s minority groups? It’s just amazing to me how selective Clinton and his ilk are about the rights of minorities. His concern for them seems to depend entirely on the color of their skin. If they are black, we hear a whole lot about minority rights. If they are Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, Gorans, or Montenegrin in Kosovo - it’s like neither the minorities nor the rights even exist.

The Raska-Prizren Diocese of Serbian Orthodox Church has documented the murder of 350 Serbs, by name, since NATO and the KLA took control of Kosovo, between June and August 1999. That would represent something like .15% of the approximately 200,000 Serbs in Kosovo when the bombing began. This figure does not include the hundreds who have been kidnapped by the KLA and who have never been heard from again. This only includes those the Church has buried. About 90% of the Serbs have fled the province, compared with about 30% of the ethnic Albanians who were refugees between March 24th and June 11th.

An equivalent figure, .15% of the 1,800,000 ethnic Albanians were in Kosovo when the bombing began would be 2700. And, although we have been told that many thousands were killed by the Serbs - up to 100,000 during the bombing, nothing like that many bodies have been discovered. The actual figures mentioned by forensic experts who were rushed to Kosovo the document the "Serb killings" are only a few hundred. So far proof that thousands of ethnic Albanians were killed by Serbs simply has not materialized. Since NATO occupation, not only have most of the minorities fled the KLA-NATO occupation, but KLA opposition among ethnic Albanians claim up to 150,000 ethnic Albanians who oppose the KLA also have fled because their lives are in danger from the KLA terrorists.

According to Fred Abrahams of the Human Rights Watch, in 1998 1200 people died in Kosovo. Of that number 140 were Serbs. That would indicate, if only 10% of the population was Serb, and 90% were Albanian, which were the figures given consistently by the United Nations, that a higher percentage of Serbs were killed in 1998 than Albanians. Others put the number of Serbs killed at 300 - most of them police and other government officials. The 1200 people killed in Kosovo in 1998, which supposedly was so horrendous that America bombed Yugoslavia for 79 days to solve the problem, compares as follows with the numbers of people killed in other ethnic conflicts around the world: Sudan - 2 million, Tibet - 1 million in the last 7 years, Rwanda - 500,000, Chechnya - 80,000, Turkey - 31,000, Ethiopia - 15,000, KOSOVO - 2,000 (source NBC News) The Human Rights Watch claims the dead in Kosovo was only 1200. NBC used a nice round figure of 2,000. We do not yet have the number of people killed in East Timor in the last couple of weeks while the United Nations sat on its hands waiting for permission from the invaders, Clinton’s friends in Indonesia, to "intervene."

Increasingly around the world this situation is being discussed. ` Ghana’s Foreign Minister, James VictorGbeho said yesterday at the United Nations: `We have seen in the past few months the kind of resources that the world has been willing and able to mobilize in the Balkans at short notice,'' Ghana's foreign minister, James Victor Gbeho, said Tuesday. ``We do not see the same response to the tragedies of Africa,'' he said.

Clinton responded to that rising concern of US hypocrisy in "humanitarian" matters saying, ""I know that some are troubled that the United States and others cannot respond to every humanitarian catastrophe in the world," Clinton said. "We cannot do everything everywhere. But simply because we have different interests in different parts of the world does not mean we can be indifferent to the destruction of innocents in any part of the world." Clinton defended NATO's decision to begin an air war against Serbia, saying that it followed a consensus in the Security Council that Serbian atrocities against Kosovo's ethnic Albanians were unacceptable, the New York Times observes in today’s paper.

What is troubling is the willingness to literally make up "atrocities" supposedly committed by Serbs in Kosovo, which have since been proven false, to justify spending billions of dollars to bomb Yugoslavia for 79 days, , while the Clinton administration simply ignored really the death of literally millions of non-whites around the world.

Why? Has the situation in Europe now been stabilized with the withdrawal of an intact Yugoslav army from Kosovo and the occupation by KFOR and its obvious ally, the KLA? Don’t count on it. Sources inside Yugoslavia are predicting the KLA will now turn its weapons against KFOR forces since all minorities have been effectively cleansed..

What seems to be occurring is an increasingly jaundiced look at the so-called "Western Democracy" which NATO intends to force on the Balkans. It is becoming increasingly clear that the so-called "democratic forces" in Serbia are losing, not gaining ground against Milosevic. Efforts to bomb out, freeze out and destroy civilian electrical and industrial plants have not driven the Serbs into the arms of NATO. Anti-Milosevic forces which were able to bring 2 million Serbs into the streets of Belgrade two years ago are able to muster only a few thousand protesters today. The protesters are not blocked by Serb police. The public is simply not supporting the confused and splintered parties who are promised money from America for their opposition to Milosevic. Their anti-Milosevic campaigns are increasingly viewed in Serbia as part of NATO’s aggression.

All of this could very well herald the start of a much wider war than we’ve seen so far. If the KLA turns its weapons on KFOR forces, it is not clear what the NATO response would be. At least one Yugoslav source tells me that it would only take a "few days" for the KLA to totally dismantle the KFOR forces based on the weapons it has kept. Then what would happen? Would Clinton send in more troops? Would they ask for the Yugoslav troops to come back in? Would Milosevic just stand back and wait until the KLA and KFOR killed each other off? From what I’m hearing, this could begin as early as this fall. Stay tuned. Contrary to a lot of Western wishful thinking, the Yugoslav army is still intact, and still well-trained and knowledgeable. It wouldn’t be the first time in history that the Serbs waited until their enemies weakened each other, and then moved in to regain their land.

Here's the latest from your favorite Original Sources analyst, Mary Mostert.

T'gunn, personally, I like her. We had a very pleasant e-mail exchange a while back. We didn't completely agree, but I think I understand her a bit better now. phil