Igor:
Jake (joke) would probably say something
like:"this is russians jews (aximoron here), so it
is o.k. to kidnap, rape and kill them."

Jake:
how do you know that much about Israil?

Rhetorical question!
No it was not. Please, see the definition of
rhetorical. If you would live in Israel, you can
say it is rhetorical otherwise be nice and play
the game.

Igor

Do you have any more unbiased accurate reports
from your highly credible Russian sources?



I just could not leave this one alone. Jake, I do
not remember you showing any sources (russians,
western, eastern, ....). You just keep saying same
thing over and over. Please, put at least one good
source to back up all your saying. (kkk web page
does not

Mask:
Basaev started his training with the help of KGB.
Lebed (russian general who negotiated first
treaty) said what Basaev was working for KGB
(snitch). Not sure how true this fact is, but
Basaev was fighting for russians in
Armenia/Azebra. w

Q to all:
what do you guys/girls think about possibility of
starting peace negotiations between RF and current
president of Chechnya. It seems that both sides
are hinting at i

Citizen of the World.

Catchy name BTW...

I agree with you, it's looking more and more as though the tough rhetoric coming out of Moscow was only a ploy by Putin to ensure election success.

Clearly Moscow is coming face to face with its military shortcoming and will try to end the quagmire through political means. Let's just hope they are better politicians than they are soldiers. LOL.

To All Esp. Igor and Kim

from CNN.com sight ; http://cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/03/31/bc.warcrimes.bosnia.ap/index.html

Witness: Serb commanders had plans to wipe out Muslims of Srebrenica
March 31, 2000
Web posted at: 12:48 PM EST (1748 GMT)

"
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- A U.N. military observer testified Friday in the genocide trial of Gen. Radislav Krstic that Bosnian Serb commanders planned to wipe out the Muslim population of Srebrenica -- site of one of the worst massacres since the Holocaust -- if they refused to leave voluntarily.

Lt. Col. Joseph Kingori contradicted claims by Krstic's defense attorney that Bosnian Serb forces overran Srebrenica in response to attacks from within the demilitarized enclave by Muslim soldiers.

"I don't think they posed any threat at all," said Kingori, a Kenyan air force colonel who served with the U.N. observer mission in Bosnia.

Kingori took the witness stand as the Krstic trial concluded its third week. Krstic, the most senior Bosnian Serb commander to face the U.N. tribunal, is charged with every crime in its jurisdiction: genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity and grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions.

He has pleaded innocent to the charges, which carry a maximum life prison term.

Prosecutors say that, as commander of the Bosnian Serb army's Drina corps, Krstic was responsible for the troops who carried out the bloodshed at Srebrenica.

Around 40,000 Muslim fled to Srebrenica as Serb forces closed in on the enclave in northeast Bosnia in the latter part of the 1992-95 Bosnian war. In early July 1995, the Serbs pushed aside a battalion of Dutch peacekeepers and allegedly slaughtered at least 7,500 Muslim men and boys. The rest escaped or were deported to Muslim-held territory.

Kingori was one of two unarmed U.N. observers stationed inside Srebrenica monitoring compliance with a 2-year-old Serb-Muslim agreement backed by the United Nations to demilitarize the enclave.

The Kenyan officer said Serb shelling of Srebrenica with mortars, rockets and heavy artillery was "the order of the day."

By contrast, the witness said, Serbs had little to fear from Muslim soldiers inside the enclave, who had handed over nearly all of their heavy weaponry to peacekeepers.

Krstic's lawyer, Nenad Petrusic, wrote in a pretrial brief that the general ordered the Srebrenica offensive in response to what he claimed were Muslim attacks from the enclave, involving "ethnic cleansing, burning houses and terrorizing the civilian population" of outlying Serb villages.

Kingori said he was summoned to meetings before the offensive in which Bosnian Serb Army subcommanders spoke in "menacing" terms about their intentions regarding the Muslims in the enclave. An officer he identified as Col. Vukovic delivered a stern ultimatum.

"If the Muslims don't leave, he was going to kill all of them," said Kingori. "Something was being planned."

The Kenyan did not specify whether Krstic was present at the meeting. But he said that the Bosnian Serb command structure functioned properly, with lower-ranking officers obeying orders issued by commanders.

Prosecutors describe Krstic as the immediate subordinate of former Bosnian Serb military chief Ratko Mladic who, along with the Radovan Karadzic, the wartime Bosnian Serb leader, are also indicted for genocide at Srebrenica. Both men are believed at large in Serb-controlled territory.

The Yugoslav war crimes tribunal was established in 1993 by the U.N. Security council. It has sentenced 14 Serbs, Croats and Muslims to up to 45 years in prison for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Prosecutors have so far failed to obtain a single genocide conviction. "

Barbarians who deserve to be Tomahawked

Pictures of dead or wounded (or raped) Serbs often fill the screens of the world's television and print media, only to be re-labeled as dead or wounded or raped Croats or Muslims. Many Serb victims not only suffer the indignity of defeat in death; they also are used in death as models in the macabre image manipulation operations of the Croatian and Muslim Bosnians. If the Vietnam War was lost to the United States by the negative television images of its own reporters, then the Balkan war against the Serbs is being won ... by an active, planned manipulation of international television.
Gregory R. Copley, Editor, Defence & Foreign Affairs Strategic Policy [London], December, 1992.

Chechen ambush

Up to 33 Russian troops die as
convoys come under fire

Crisis in Chechnya: special report (The Guardian- London)

Ian Traynor in Moscow
Friday March 31, 2000

Chechen rebels lured a convoy of
crack Russian troops into a mountain
ambush and killed at least three of
them - perhaps as many as 33 -
Moscow admitted yesterday

Seven months after Vladimir Putin
launched the Chechen war as his
"historic mission", he seems to be
saddled with an ever more intractable
conflict which repeatedly flares up in
the face of Russian declarations that it
is under control.

Sergei Yastrzhembsky, his war
spokesman, conceded yesterday that
a unit of 49 interior ministry troops was
ambushed at Zhani-Vedeno, 30 miles
south-east of the Chechen capital,
Grozny, and pinned down for hours by
guerrilla fire.

He said 16 managed to escape. The
bodies of three killed could not be
recovered and the rest of the men
were missing.

A convoy of more than 100
reinforcements was also pinned down
by rebel fire when it got within 600
yards of ambushed troops, and had to
retreat with at least 20 wounded,
Itar-Tass news agency reported.

The latest setback came as Moscow
said it was stationing up to 25,000
troops permanently in Chechnya, and
its special envoy, Nikolai Koshman,
called on Mr Putin to establish direct
presidential rule in the breakaway
republic.

Russian military headquarters said an
army motorised division of 16,000 men
was being deployed permanently to
four bases in Chechnya, plus a police
brigade of 8,000 men.

Before his landslide victory in last
weekend's presidential election, Mr
Putin said he might impose direct
presidential rule on Chechnya, despite
there being no legal basis for this. Mr
Koshman met him yesterday and
afterwards said direct Kremlin rule
should be declared "some time in the
near future".

Despite occupying most of the republic
and driving the rebel fighters into the
mountains, the Russians seem to be
losing rather than tightening their
control. Chechens say they are biding
their time before launching attacks on
Grozny and Gudermes, the republic's
two biggest towns, which are heavily
garrisoned by the Russians.

The Russian interior minister, Vladimir
Rushailo, said: "The situation in the
republic is not simple and requires
constant attention and corrections."

The rebels' ambushes and
hit-and-run tactics are likely to
become more of a liability to Mr Putin
now that he has won his four-year
term. Western leaders have muted
their criticism in the hope that he
would wind down the war once he had
used it to get elected.

Chechen sources expect Mr Putin to
try to open talks, if discreetly, with
Chechnya's president, Aslan
Maskhadov.

But if Mr Maskhadov ever could assert
authority over the myriad Chechen
warlords and rebel leaders, it seems
unlikely that he could rein them in now,
particularly now that they are based
largely in the forbidding southern
mountains.

The most important things at the end:
But if Mr Maskhadov ever could assert authority over the myriad Chechen warlords and rebel leaders, ...

All these victims will be avenged. Yes, Basaev, Raduev & others had their own connections to FSB as Noriega to CIA, as Hussein whom US supported in his fight against Homeini, but it doesn't mean a lot now. Probably first time in 1994-96 Russia wasn't ready to this unprecedentally full-scale war on it's own territory but now the situation is quite different. The cause of bandits is lost, they are condemned to failure.

AllAmerican...

Don't let your mind wonder-it's far to small to be let out on its own.

OHAYA, KISAKO!
The greetings of the dawn for you!
0537

Allam,

This is from an article by Ed Vullamy in 1996.
The man he is talking about, eventually died whilst on trial in the Hague.

For one last time, I ask you to understand, that I am not pro-Serbian, that I in no way am defending this person. What I am trying to say is that in the circumstances at the time, terrifying things happened on all sides. This was not a military confrontation it was total choas.
Think this was Sarajevo, a relatively small city, being divided into two ethnic zones. Prisoners and hostages were taken on both sides, some were exchanged for hostages held by the other side, alot simply dissapeared. The international organisations were desparately trying to keep track of who was holding who. At this time the first reports of concentration camps emerged. The bosnian Serbs offered journalists the chance to visit what they said were refugee camps.
So off went the journalists to prove that the Serbs had concerntration camps. Resulting in the now infamous picture that "shocked/fooled? the world." The thing is that no one bothered to go in search of the eleged Croat camps, so we will probably never know.

One thing you might bear in mind is that the person in the following quote was in fact born in a concerntration camp run by Croat Nazis for Serbs, Jews and Gypsies. That excuses nothing, but may shed light on that persons psychology and how violence begets violence.

CNN's call for revenge is all very well, but will it help to restore peace?

Kim
===================================


The man responsible for the
day-to-day administration of Camp
Omarska was Dr Milan Kovacevic, an
anaesthetist by profession. He was a
bear of a man with a pale moustache
and he told us there was nothing the
world could teach the Serbs about
concentration camps, since he had
been born in one. Camp Jasenovac
had been set up by the Croatian Nazi
puppet regime for Serbs, Jews,
gypsies and dissidents.

After our discovery of Omarska, when
the media circus descended on
Prijedor and the camp was hurriedly
closed, Dr Kovacevic was assigned
the task of explaining to the world's
cameras what a 'collection centre'
was.

His eyes were fiery with enthusiasm
for what he called 'a great moment in
the history of Serbs'.

TODAY they are still ruddy, but from
some other, more introverted emotion,
and no doubt from his taste for the
home-made plum brandy he produces
from his cupboard at 10am. It was a
good year for plums, he explains, but
the jam factories are all shut. Shame to
let them go to waste.

Dr Kovacevic, it turns out, is now
director of Prijedor hospital. He
remains a proud nationalist. 'The facts
showed it necessary to destroy
Bosnia. I wanted to make this Serb
land. Without Muslims, yes. We cannot
live together. I still hold that view.'

What about the burned houses along
the road? Was that necessary, or a
moment of madness? Dr Kovacevic
proceeds cautiously, accompanied by
a second glass of brandy. 'It was both
things. The houses were burned at the
beginning. And at the beginning,
people were losing control. People
weren't behaving normally.'

This comes as a surprise. The Serbs in
charge of what happened in 1992 do
not usually talk like this. Was it all a
terrible mistake? 'To be sure it was a
terrible mistake,' he answers. A third
glass, and suddenly: 'We knew very
well what happened at Auschwitz and
Dachau, and we knew very well how it
started and how it was done. What we
did was not the same as Auschwitz or
Dachau, but it was a mistake. It was
planned to have a camp for people,
but not a concentration camp.'

He has never had this conversation
before, the anaesthetist says. But he
ploughs on. 'Omarska,' he tells us, 'was
planned as a reception centre.' The
idea was to take in families for their
own protection. 'But then it turned into
something else. I cannot explain the
loss of control. I don't think even the
historians will find an explanation in
the next 50 years. You could call it
collective madness.'

Dr Kovacevic made no attempt in 1992
to hide his role, but now, surely, he
must. The Hague is a serious business.
'Were you part of this collective
madness, doctor, or outside it?'

There is no stopping him now. 'If
someone acquitted me, saying that I
was not a member of that collective
madness, then I would have to admit
that this was not true. But then I would
want to think about how much I was a
part of it. It's a fact that I was a
member of the municipal government
for that year. But we cannot all be the
same, even within the madness. Every
man has his good side, and his bad
side. Where he is is the important
thing.'

He returns constantly to his memories
of Jasenovac. The difference between
the two camps, he explains, is that in
Omarska 'there were not more than
100 killed, whereas Jasenovac was a
killing factory'. Only 100 killed at
Omarska? 'I said there were 100
killed, not died. About 100 was the
number who were actually killed, not
how many died. You will have to talk to
the doctors about how many died.' But
later he throws off his caution: 'Oh, I
don't know how many were killed in
there, God knows. It's a wind tunnel,
this part of the world, the hurricane
blowing to and fro. . .'

And so why did the doctor resign
office? 'I left politics because I saw
many bad things. This is my personal
secret. Things did not turn out the way
I planned. If you have to do things by
killing people, well . . . Now my hair is
white. I don't sleep so well.'

I would just like to add to that, that if anyone believes peace has been restored in Bosnia, reports show that in upcoming Bosnian elections, the nationalists on all sides are predicted to win!

Now back to Chechnia.....

Can anyone tell me if it is true that Russians now hold both ends of the Argon pass? If so how are the Chechens getting suplies? Are they getting supplies? Could this be the beginning of the End?

Kim

PS hi

Afternoon KIMMY BABES:

Great workout at the gym this morning. Burnt off aggrevations from past weeks work. Booked a relaxing massage and facial for later this afternoon. Would simply love to have you join me.
Any rate lovely dinner party last night, another reason for hitting the gym this morning. HA HA

What's say we make plans to visit Oberrammergau for the play this summer. I call ol Ludwig and arrange for us to stay at the Linderhof HA HA

Trust you'll have a relaxing and enjoyable weekend. Is he being a good boy? If so kindly extend my greetings, if not I'll share your wrath, lol.

btw..Kimmy do you golf or play tennis by any chance?

LUV YA
HM

JAKE B...

May 1000 crusty camel herders de-louse themselves
in your annal cavity.