On July 23, 1996, the following paid advertisement appeared in the editorial page of the Haagsche Courantas, a petition to the Hague's Lord Mayor and its citizens, on behalf of the Americans for International Justice Committee, an umbrella group formed in San Francisco in 1993, to monitor The Hague Tribunal:
"For several centuries Holland has been regarded as one of the most civilized nations. The Hague in particular has been the seat of the World Court in the current century, a court distinguished by the application of Law to relations and disputes between nations and states. The City and the Court became intertwined, epitomizing some of the most admirable legacies of the Western Civilization itself. The cases heard by the Court and its careful judicial rulings virtually defined International Law, a field now taught at most major universities. The World Court as a global legal Officer, never engaged in advocacy, it never demanded reprisals; it left the acceptance of its rulings to the parties involved. It allowed simultaneous representation and the submission of representations to all sides in a given dispute; it did not launder or argue its findings in public before or during judicial review or proceedings, while the concept of international military intervention to enforce its rulings remained alien to the World Court. Right now, this magnificent legal heritage is being literally raped at The Hague, its respected home. Its image is being subverted by an imposter, a would-be legal organ, inserted deliberately into The Hague in search of a legal and cultural pedigree. It is presented as an international "Tribunal" on war crimes. It uses legal language. It has jurists on its panels. It has funds but, in fact, it is a fraud. It clearly has a mission which by its very nature has become a naked assault on law itself.
Dealing with war crimes in former Yugoslavia, it truncates the true historical context by eliminating all events before l991, invoking statutes of limitations, which do not apply to war crimes. Disregarding rules of evidence and established normal legal procedure, it investigates, indicts, prosecutes and renders sentence as a single body. It demands that arbitrarily proclaimed war criminals be physically delivered to the "Hague Tribunal." It issues daily accusations to the world media against two particular leaders of a single ethnicity and religion in the three-part civil war in which all sides share in brutalities. It does not allow defense attorneys to challenge the accusations, by hiding behind a lack of mandate for trials-in-absentia. It is even demanding that the NATO troops in Bosnia hunt and arrest the two leaders at the risk of both military and civilian bloodshed. It is deliberately sustaining worldwide media frenzy through which the accused is pronounced guilty by association and without trial. It is destroying and making a mockery of the judicial system and secular legal tradition by pursuing its own political objectives. The Americans for International Justice Committee believe that the decent residents of the famous city and its highest elected officials are being deceived and dishonoured by the presence in their midst of a would-be "court of law" conceived in mischief, and motivated by political expediency and bias. It embodies the imperial arrogance of powers whose leaders mistake might for right. We, therefore, respectfully, petition the Lord Mayor and the citizens of the Hague to put the "Tribunal" on notice that, as presently constituted and operated it debases the true Court's historic legacy and is no longer welcome in their city. The proclamation would attest in no uncertain terms that the Hague intends to remain the permanent home and guardian of International Law, fathered by the illustrious Dutch jurist Hugo Grotius (Groot), whose immortal work De ivre belli acpacis (Law of War and Peace, Paris, 1625), had been the guiding light in the slow and painstaking evolution of international legality and morality."

Dimitri,
Overall, i'd say the South wins the award for most dense redneck population. However, there are redneck in the Midwest as well. To my surprise, when I went to Southern California a few years ago I found a considerably large redneck population. Fact is, rednecks have infiltrated all areas of the United States. I think that the main deterent to rednecks is a large city and the corresponding city culture (which is viewed as being an undesirably ultra liberal society).

By WHA-A-T?! ( - 206.171.134.229) on Thursday, April 6, 2000 - 12:48 am:Cold-blooded murder? Hardly. What they were doing in Chechnya was not tourism - they were soldiers of a repressive force, aimed at wiping out the last remnants of resistance to their oppression.
To really compare apples with apples, what do you think the russians are doing in their so-called filtration camps? Giving out candy? Why was the UN representative not allowed to visit any of them?

Unlike killing in a battle, execution of the prisoners of war is the war crime.

And as far as we know those 9 had nothing to do with "camps", they were field soldiers.

hey Gonzo/Suleyman,

just a clarification about Midwest - when Igor guessed that All Am. is from Midwest and I said: "how ironic - that's where Gonzo resides", what I meant was - it is ironic that two Americans on this board from the same region differ in a fundamental way so much. Nothing more, nothing less.
Cheers.

Suleyman,
Good point on "redneck" issue. Thank you.

Russia to be suspended from Council of Europe over Chechnya rights!!!

STRASBOURG, April 6 (AFP) -

The parliamentary assembly of the 41-nation Council of Europe voted Thursday to adopt procedures to suspend Russia without delay because of its human rights record in Chechnya.

A text adopted by a two-thirds majority called on the ministerial council, the executive organ of the Council of Europe, to invoke the procedure to suspend the Russian representation because of what it called a lack of substantial and demonstrable progress in human rights issues.

My congratulations!

Here we have arguements for and against the International war crimes tribunal:

Make up your own mind.

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/lib-contents.html

http://www.un.org/law/icc/index.htm

http://serbianlinks.freehosting.net/library.html

http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm (apologies for the gory image)

http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~bosnia/criminal/criminals.html

http://www.suc.org/politics/tribunal_watch/

http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/littleton/v1tribun.html

http://www.un.org/law/icc/statute/romefra.html

Regards

Last two in the list again.

http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/littleton/v1tribun.htm

http://www.un.org/law/icc/statute/romefra.htm

I feel so sorry for Europe... Just imagine - Europe WITHOUT the GREAT RUSSIA - would you call the former "Europe" again?!!

Russia to be suspended from Council of Europe over Chechnya rights!!!
* Heh. In reality that same "Council" is afraid of Russia leaving it altogether, because it'll have (in this case) noone to "influence" and nothing to "obstruct" to then. What has Russia forgot in that Council? I don't know.

>>> What has Russia forgot in that Council? I don't know.

You are right - Russia "forgot" nothing in the Council, since Russian input was nil.

Surely, nobody will cry for Russia. At least there will be fewer clowns and brawls in the Coucil - that's for sure. Cheers!!

You are right - Russia "forgot" nothing in the Council, since Russian input was nil.
* Heh. What about the hard cash paid for participation? At least, if Russia leaves, those sums could be put to better use then paying to see various tutakows together with hypocritical lords.:o))

http://stars.coe.fr/Magazine/te0100/dossier1.htm

Chechnya: a peaceful settlement
he Parliamentary delegation was led by President Lord Russell-Johnston. Delegation members were Cevdet Akcali (Turkey, EDG),
Rudolf Bindig (Germany, SOC), Andreas Gross (Switzerland, SOC), Tadeusz Iiwinski (Poland, SOC), Lord Judd (United Kingdom,
SOC), Jaakko LAAKSO (Finland, UEL), Kristiina Ojuland (Estonia, LDR), Renate Wohlwend (Liechtenstein, EPP/CD) and Bruno
HALLER, Clerk of the Assembly.

Several days before they arrived, on 14 January, the Chairman of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe, Irish
Foreign Minister David Andrews, met with his Russian counterpart Igor Ivanov, at the Minister's invitation. Their talks
focussed on the future Council of Europe contribution towards restoring the rule of law, respect for human rights and
democracy in Chechnya.

The objective of the parliamentary delegation's visit was to explain the position of the Assembly on the conflict in Chechnya
in the light of Russia's obligations as a member of the Organisation and to discuss with the Russian authorities the prospects
for a political solution.

President Pution is"open to suggestions"
The delegation had a long and substantial meeting with acting President Putin. Foreign Minister Ivanov and the Minister for
Emergencies Shoigu joined them. Instead of the scheduled 30 minutes, talks went on for three hours. President Putin said he
was open to suggestions by the Council of Europe. He stressed that the Council of Europe was important for Russia and that he
personally thought it had an important role to play.

The delegation also had talks with the Presidents of the two Chambers, MM Seleznyev and Stroev, and another private meeting
with Foreign Minister Ivanov. The Minister of Interior, Mr Rushailo, accompanied them on their information visit to the
North-Caucasus.

The Russian authorities tried to explain what they called a highly complex situation. They explained the reasons for the
military intervention in Chechnya, in particular the wide-spread criminality, the collapse of social and economic structures,
incursions in neighbouring Republics, culminating in the attack on Daghestan.

As far as refugees are concerned, they said that the situation was developing to the better and underlined that they were
doing their best to create conditions for people to return.

No negotiation with Mr Maskhadov
The delegation was informed in detail of their efforts to normalize the situation in the area under control of the Federal
authorities, especially as regards the re-establishment of health and school systems, gas, electricity and water
infrastructures, but in talks with the local population they learnt that public declarations do not always end up in concrete
steps. On the subject of negotiations, the Russian authorities said they were ready, under certain conditions, but excluded Mr
Maskhadov as interlocutor because of his lack of authority and support for extremists.

The parliamentary delegation for its part reminded its interlocutors that the Assembly had adopted a declaration on 13
December, stressing that "persistence in violations could lead the Parliamentary Assembly to put in question Russian
participation in the Assembly's work and in the Council of Europe."

Lord Russell-Johnston and delegation members stressed that the Council of Europe was a Human Rights organisation. "We came
with our concerns about the human rights violations in Chechnya and the humanitarian situation," they stressed. When Russia
acceded to the Council of Europe in 1996, it accepted the European Human Rights Convention. It committed itself to resolve all
internal and international disputes by peaceful means and to respect international humanitarian law.

Fighting terrorism in accordance with international law
The Assembly has always recognized the right of Russia to fight terrorism and ensure equal rights to all of its citizens but
it should do so in accordance with international law and that, they said, excludes the indiscriminate use of force.

The government must take action for a peaceful settlement. This problem cannot be solved by force, it needs a political
solution, they stated.

They also asked for free access of humanitarian organisations and international media to the zone of conflict.

Their intention, they said, was to persuade Russia to change its approach because one cannot fight terrorism by using
terrorist tactics. "We are not for or against a country, we express concern when human rights are transgressed. Russia needs
to be in complete agreement with the commitments it made when it joined the Council of Europe."

Severe human rights violations
The delegation also visited Daghestan and Ingushetia, and two locations in Chechnya - Gudermes and Tolstoi-Yurt, accompanied
by the Minister of the Interior Mr Rushailo. They had talks with Mr Aushev and Magomadov, Presidents of these two neighbouring
Republics. The delegation also had an opportunity to meet with the local population in Chechnya and internally displaced
persons in Ingushetia.

During the visit to the Karabulakh refugee camp in Ingushetia, the delegation heard several accounts of severe human rights
violations and violations of international humanitarian law by the Russian forces. "Even if we were unable to verify all these
allegations, we have to seriously take into account the reports of international Human Rights organisations such as Amnesty
International and Human Rights Watch," the delegation said.

The delegation condemned human rights abuses by the Chechen side and called for an immediate release of all hostages.

A Council of Euope presence
The Russian side took note of the delegation's concerns and agreed to seriously examine ways to improve the situation. This
will include Council of Europe presence in the region, which was agreed to in the meeting with Putin. Lord Russell-Johnston
qualified this as hope that Russia is willing to change the way it deals with the conflict.

"Our dialogue will continue next week during the session in Strasbourg when the report on the visit will be presented to the
Assembly in the presence of Minister Ivanov," the Parliamentary delegation concluded.

At their final press conference, Lord Judd (United Kingdom, SOC), rapporteur on the conflict in Chechnya for the Political
Affairs Committee, said he will be guided by what the Council of Europe can do to help to promote solutions to the situation.

Rudolf Bindig (Germany, SOC), rapporteur for the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, stressed that his task is to
find out whether Russia sticks to the commitments it undertook in 1996: to settle disputes by peaceful means and to respect
international humanitarian law.

Tadeusz Iwinski (Poland, SOC), rapporteur for the Committee on Migration, Refugees and Demography, stressed the need for an
immediate improvement of the desperate situation of refugees and called for the release of hostages.

Andreas Gross (Switzerland, SOC), rapporteur for the same Committee underlined the need for the establishment of an
international presence in the field that could monitor the situation. He concluded by saying that Russia has lost the heart of
the people in Chechnya and that this could now lead to a long guerilla style war for autonomy.

http://www.coe.fr/cm/sessions/97summit2/russia.htm

Mr YELTSIN, President of the Russian Federation, made the following statement:

"This is the first time that I address you from this lofty rostrum as leader of Russia which has become a full member of the Council of
Europe.

Here in the Palace of Europe, where the leaders of most countries of the continent have come together, I represent 150 million Russian
people. For me this is a high honour and great responsibility.

It was almost a year and a half ago that Russia joined this authoritative Organisation of European democracies.

That was made possible by positive changes both in the Russian Federation and throughout Europe.

The triumph of democracy in Russia and our country's entry into the Council of Europe significantly expanded the "territory of
freedom". Today it stretches over twelve time zones.

We are now poised to begin building together a new, greater Europe, free from division lines:

- a Europe where no State would impose its will on others;

- a Europe where big and small countries are equal partners united by common
democratic principles.

It is this Greater Europe that could nowadays become a powerful community of nations incomparable in terms of its potential with any
other region of the world and capable of ensuring its own security.

Greater Europe would draw upon the diverse experiences of cultural, national and historical legacies of all European peoples.

The road to Greater Europe is long and difficult. But travelling down this road is in the best interest of all Europeans. Russia is also
making its own contribution to this end.

We have already made significant progress in practical co-operation with the main bodies of the Council of Europe.

Russia is actively involved in the work of the Parliamentary Assembly, intergovernmental committees and working bodies of the
Council.

Republics, regions and oblasts (provinces) within Russia show huge interest in the activities of the Congress of Local and Regional
Authorities of Europe.

Our country's integration into the community of European democracies proceeds in a very dynamic fashion. And what matters here is
not just the rate of this process, but its qualitative substance.

It took us only a few years to cover the road from a totalitarian state to a market economy open to the world, a country with free
elections and an independent press.

Our country is becoming a part of a system of democratic security on the continent.

We shall do our best to make the principles of democracy a norm of life for Russia's citizens.

Standards of freedom should be the same for all people of Russia wherever they live and whatever their ethnic origin. They should be
the same for all nations irrespective of the size of their population.

Our country takes an active part in settling regional conflicts.

With our active assistance armed confrontations were defused in Nagorno-Karabakh and Transdniestria, in Tadjikistan and Abkhazia.
Since joining the Council of Europe, Russia has been strengthening co-operation with law-enforcement agencies of other countries,
both bilaterally and multilaterally.

We have launched a fundamental reform to resolutely consolidate the judiciary, strengthen law and order in the country, protect it from
State bureaucracy corruption and from organised crime.

Russia has introduced a moratorium on capital punishment and we are strictly complying with this undertaking.

I know that the European public opinion was shocked by public executions in Chechnya. Russia's leadership is taking all necessary
measures to contain such manifestations of mediaeval barbarity.

As President of Russia, I shall actively contribute to the ratification of the fundamental conventions we signed in the process of entering
the Council of Europe.

I confirm that Russia will fulfil with all the commitments undertaken in the Council of Europe.

It will do so in spite of the fact that in Europe and elsewhere there are forces seeking to isolate Russia, to put it in a position of
inequality, forces which refuse to understand that Europe without Russia is not Europe at all.

What I have in mind here is the "double standard" practice, mutual mistrust, discrimination of Russian manufacturers and restrictions
that are still applied occasionally when issuing visas to Russian nationals.

Neither can our country put up with the fact that in Europe today hundreds of thousands of people are deprived of citizenship, including
our fellow countrymen. I hope that this issue will be settled.

I am speaking about these problems from the rostrum of the Council of Europe because this very forum, faster than any other one, gets
rid of "cold war" notions.

We count upon the European community to continue treating with understanding the young Russian democracy, as well as our efforts to
protect the rights of our fellow citizens and compatriots.

The main mission of the Council of Europe is to strengthen the humanitarian component of security on our continent.

Our efforts should focus upon the individual and his or her safety and security in all the dimensions, ranging from the healthy
environment to the right to receive education in one's mother tongue. This task should be accomplished not selectively, but in a
comprehensive way on a continent-wide scale.

What we should do is not look for differences, but on the contrary, build upon all those things that bring us closer together. First of all,
we ought to strengthen the legal and standard-setting activities of the Council of Europe.

We need to have an effective human rights implementation system and "partnership for democracy" on an all-European scale.

It is necessary to establish mechanisms of pre-emptive legal and humanitarian diplomacy through the Council of Europe.

It is important to fine-tune interaction between the Council of Europe and other European institutions, above all the OSCE.

Everyone will benefit if we succeed in achieving co-ordination among European organisations.

Meeting the challenges faced by Europe also requires reliable personnel, first of all, in the field of law and interstate co-operation.

I propose developing under the auspices of the Council of Europe a common European personnel training program for Europe in the
21st century.

We pin our hopes on the young generation of politicians.

They are the ones who will have to continue our cause and to build upon democratic traditions observed today by the vast majority of
European countries.

Our continent has completely changed over the past decade. Now we share common tasks and a common cause. On the eve of the 21st
century they should all be enshrined in a Charter of European Security.

In 1999, at the close of the 20th century, our forum will mark its 50th anniversary.

I am convinced that the Council of Europe has every chance to enter the next century revitalised and looking ahead to the future.

Our common goal is the well-being of every European and of the whole of Europe.

Let us work together in the name of this noble goal!"

To Igor

Please shut up and take a break (possibly permanently). Your posts are as boring as your miserable life.