Hi, L'-san.

OnLooker

"I wonder where they're getting the money after Russia supposedly "sealed" the borders. "

Don't play the fool, Onlooker!
They brought the money on donkey backs across the montains.
The guerilla had been well financed. That's why it's so tough for the russian army.
How do you think a tiny province could face the largest army in the world without any foreign support? By theyr beleif in the AllMighty? Don't joke!

If Russia realy sealed the border(yourself, you said they "supposedly" did), the rebels will all surender in a matter of days. But there are mountains...

BTH, that sub. Tutakow threatened to shoot the Dagestani Duma member, and it was caught full on video. And in the European "Parliament" headquarters.

On Looker/ Nour El Deen,

One of my close friend, an Arab Brother studied in Moscow for several years back in 70's. He also travelled around Soviet Union and met Chechens and other Muslims of the former Soviet Union which was essentially a 'prison of nationalities'. Then in 1979, the Shah of Iran was toppled resulting in some jubilation among Muslims. But astonishingly my friend was not yet all impressed. He predicted that a time will come when Islam in Russia will stage a spectacular comeback in the Caucasus. Muslims in Russia have been subjected to such horrendous atrocities that there is no parallel in history. Muslims were thrust into the cauldron of communism for 70 years and have come out like steel from the that burning hearth of communism. Half a million Chechens perished in the Stalinist deportation of 1944 and yet after 50 years the same nation has stood ground against the might of Russian Army which is twice the entire Chechen population. Morever this Evil Army is supported and financed by the hypocritical west and their stooges in the so called Muslim world. Saudi Arabia has loaned billions of dollars to Russia. It is nothing but outright day light robbery. You think Russia will pay back that loan.

Chechens are fighting the whole world and with the Almighty on their side no power on earth can stop the Chechen mujahideen from implementing supreme law of God in the land of Qoqaz. If it was not the fervent belief in the Islamic idealogy, the Chechens would have met the same fate as the native American Indians wiped to virtual extinction in their ancestral lands by the European settlers.

Dudayev was looking for materialistic gains. This was his main purpose. Islam was not his number one priority. This you might say led to the eventual "downfall" in economy and stability.
* Any talk of any independence involves materialistic things, period. Dudayev's rule failed at it big time. And it has nothing to do with Islam which is not a textbook on oil-drilling, chemistry, medicine or computers.

Sorry to interfere with your personal conversation with onlooker and noir, but this one frase explaines so much..

by Saladin:
"""One of my close friend, an Arab Brother studied in Moscow """

Enough said. First you(not you personally) get educated, then you bomb and terrorize the livin' hell out of the place where you get your education. Users. Cheap ones. No/fake morals. Double standarts. Hysteria and cry for allah, while killing "nonallahers"..

Saladin,
just nevermind, that was more or less rhetorical..

Chechnya Mufti Calls Rebel Fighters "Criminals"

GENEVA, Apr 7, 2000 -- (Reuters) The Moslem religious leader of Chechnya on Thursday denounced rebels fighting Russian troops in the republic as "criminals" who had tried to force an extremist form of Islam on its people.

Mufti Akhmad Hadji Kadyrov told the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, whose current session has heard strong criticism of alleged Russian abuses in Chechnya, that ordinary Chechens do not support continuation of the war.

The Mufti, who said he had fought on the Chechen side during the last conflict in the republic in 1995-96, said many other local military commanders who had been with him then had also refused to fight in the second war, which started last year.

"Those who are still fighting now are those who by and large have no way back. They are criminals who were involved in mass and bloody crimes...and must answer for what they have done," he told the 53-state forum.

On Wednesday. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson had told the body that what she called "the scale of serious allegations of gross human rights violations" by Russian forces warranted international attention and a national inquiry.

Russia's ambassador in Geneva Vasily Sidorov responded that part of Robinson's report "distorted the true nature of the state of affairs."

Mufti Kadyrov, a member of the Russian delegation to the Commission although he is known to support eventual independence for Chechnya, implicitly backed Moscow's argument that it went into the republic last year to fight terrorism.

He said that almost all Chechens had backed the fight against the Russians in the first war because they believed that once they had obtained freedom from Moscow they would be able to live normal and peaceful lives.

But after President Aslan Maskhadov was elected, the Mufti said, money poured in from abroad to finance extremist "Islamic groups" who in effect took control of the republic.

"Of course there were human rights violations in Chechnya - war itself is a violation of human rights," he said.

"Of course peaceful civilians have been dying, but people have become reconciled to that, because they hope that things will be better in the future, and because, by failing in the trust the people gave him, Maskhadov provided good reason for (Russian) troops to be sent in."

The Mufti said, "I am sure that with the election of (Russian) President Vladimir Putin the war party in the upper power echelons in Russia will disappear from the political scene. Russia has no other choice."

Saladin how do you explain 44 year in wheelchair who got that why in 1968 while in Russian army.Another of your reliable sources?????

Saladin how do you explain 44 year in wheelchair who got that way in 1968 while in Russian army.Another of your reliable sources?????

Chief of Chechen terrorists are preparing to slaughter all Russian servicemen they have taken prisoner, presidential aide Sergei Yastrzhembsky told a briefing in Moscow. As a pretext they want extradition of Colonel Yuri Budanov, accused of a grave crime. Yastrzhembsky referred to an intercepted telephone conversation on April 4 between Jordanian terrorist Khattab and chief propagandist of Chechen separatists Udugov.


Now Udugov is found in the United Arab Emirates, Yastrzhembsky said. And added that "the main ideologist of Chechen terrorists" has suggested that Khattab "officially declare that we'll shoot down every prisoner until they give us Colonel Budanov". To that Khattab said that "on behalf of Shamil Basaev and my own behalf I'm ready to declare that we'll cut to pieces everybody who gets in our hands. We'll not spend ammunition on them. We'll do it until Budanov is given to us".


"Interceptions of this kind will be filed in the criminal case begun by the General Prosecutor's Office against Udugov. "As you see from this conversation, the role of Udugov is not limited to mere propaganda work", Sergei Yastrzhembsky said
AND YOU EXPECT GOOD TREATMENT OF CHECHEN PRISONERS.BEST SOLUTION---TAKE NO PRISONERS,SHOOT THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VLADIMIR PUTIN (RF Acting President): Anti-Russian resolution adopted by the PACE delegates yesterday to the lack of information available to them and their unawareness of the danger of the processes going on in the North Caucasus and in some Asian countries. I am sure that with time Europe will become aware of the danger Russia is facing today. Combating extremism, including religious extremism, is a challenge to the entire European continent today.


Russia defends not only its own interests, but also the interests of the whole of Europe, which it protects from extremism. As the Europeans come to realise this, their attitudes will change accordingly.


I do not think the stance of a majority of the European legislators reflects the sentiment of the European public. Despite the PACE resolution, Russia will continue to insistently and patiently explain its views, and will seek to integrate into Europe.


SERGEI YASTERZHEMBSKY (RF Acting President's aide): After its resolution the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe can not lay claim to play any role in solution of the Chechen problem. The PACE does not have the right to interfere into the Chechen conflict thanks to some emotional deputies and visits of lords and other members of the PACE delegation to Chechnya must be stopped. The PACE deputies have not realised one simple truth - Russia needs the Assembly as much as the Assembly needs Russia. The anti-terrorist operation in Chechnya would be completed, as it was connected with security of the state and its territorial integrity, that are Russia's principal values. Russia was not going to argue about these values any more.


YEVGENY PRIMAKOV (Fatherland-All Russia or OVR leader):
Russia should neither ignore international community opinions nor let anyone, particularly those unaware of its realities, order it about, opined during a break in today's plenary session of the State Duma, parliament's lower house.


The OVR Duma faction is unanimously against the Strasbourg decision. However, I do not think the PACE session has taken a final decision to deprive Russia of its Council of Europe membership. It is premature to say that a procedure has been launched to oust Russia from the Council of Europe.


SERGEI STEPASHIN (Chairman of the anti-graft commission at the State Duma): The council of ministers of the Council of Europe will be more tolerant on Russia than the European parliament. The PACE session in Strasbourg has just adopted a resolution, recommending that the CE cabinet now and then starts suspending Russia's CE membership. PACE has demonstrated dual standards and morality. They turned a deaf ear to Russian delegates' arguments. Russia has not been heard in Strasbourg and now should assume a tough stance so as to prevent political isolation, which would be injurious. Russia's expulsion from the Council of Europe would not do good to that international body.


VLADIMIR KARTASHKIN (Chairman of the Human Rights Commission under the Russian president): The Strasbourg session of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe has "crowned" the anti-Russian campaign unfolded in the West over the federal center's military antiterrorist operation in Chechnya. The voting returns at PACE on what is called the Chechen question is tantamount to waging direct information warfare against Russia. It can easily grow into what used to be known as cold war. It has turned out that the world may relapse into it. The decision of PACE is rather political than juridical and is motivated by anti-Russian sentiments, the desire to bring pressure to bear on Moscow.


The PACE resolution invites CE member-states to bring an action at the European Court against Russia for ostensibly failing to abide by the CE human right convention. But the actions of Russia in Chechnya are clear, logical and along the lines of all international documents, the main one being the Geneva Convention. The Chechnya conflict is certainly internal and falls under the action of this protocol. Everything that is going on in Russia is its internal affair and it can use every legal method of warfare against terrorist rebels and all other persons leading an armed struggle in a bid to wreck Russia's national unity and territorial integrity.


The PACE session has taken a precarious decision which is indicative of a serious internal crisis. Moscow should recall its representatives from PACE and not participate in its work until the anti-Russian resolution on Chechnya has be revoked.


Do not overdramatise the situation. The PACE resolution is only recommendatory and it is the CE council of ministers that will decide on Russia's membership in the Council of Europe. The council is made up statesmen, who are much more responsible than PACE parliamentarians. They are well aware of the place and role of Russia in the European security system. They cannot neglect its authority and the great-power status and will hardly go to extremes like the edging out of Moscow from the system of European relations.


ALEKSANDR DZASOKHOV (President of North Ossetia-Alania): "To squeeze Russia out from the North Caucasus and from the whole region is not a good idea. Russia itself is a large Caucasian state, historically rooted with Caucasian countries

---

A session of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg has crowned an anti-Russian campaign launched in the West over the federal centre's military operation in Chechnya, a North Caucasian republic within the Russian Federation.


And I am quite agreeable with Dmitry Rogozin, head of a Russian delegation to the session, chairman of the international committee of the State Duma lower house of parliament, who said that voting results by European parliamentarians on the so-called Chechen issue are a direct information war on Russia.


I can only add that this information war can easily escalate into the infamous Cold War, whose relapses, it appears, still haunt the world.


It is clear that the decision taken by the PACE, recommending the Council of Europe Ministerial Committee to immediately start the procedure for suspending Russia's membership of the CE, is of a political, rather than legal, nature, prompted by anti-Russian sentiments, and a desire to exert pressure on Moscow.


The PACE resolution contains an appeal to CE member-countries to file with the European Court against Russia for supposedly failing to observe the provisions of the Human Rights Convention of the CE. But Russia's moves in Chechnya are clear and logical and meet the provisions of all international documents, including the central one - the Geneva convention.


Under an additional protocol to the Geneva convention, signed in 1957 (the convention itself was adopted in 1949), every state has the right to use its armed forces in an internal conflict to protect law and order, and the national unity and territorial integrity of the country.


The conflict in Chechnya is no doubt of a domestic nature and falls under the above mentioned protocol.


As a matter of fact, its very title - a protocol on non-international armed conflicts - sufficiently well reflects the gist of the problem.


Admittedly, everything taking place in Chechnya is an internal affair for Russia, and it is entitled to use all legal methods of conducting military operations against terrorist militants and all other persons who wage an armed struggle with a view to disrupting Russia's national unity and territorial integrity.


The protocol prohibits using armed forces against the civilian population, but nothing of the kind is happening in Chechnya. On the contrary, federal authorities are doing their best to protect civilians and are meeting with ever growing understanding and support on their part.


Rumours about high losses among civilian population are spread by militants themselves. As for cases of human rights abuses in the course of the anti-terrorist operation, they are inevitable in such a situation, and each of them is invariably recorded by the federal centre, which resorts to immediate and appropriate measures, opening criminal cases against offenders.


In Strasbourg the Russian delegation again came across a policy of double standards, long used by the Western countries. European parliamentarians have accused, and without any grounds, only Russia for abusing human rights in Chechnya.


But that actual violators of human rights and liberties in the North Caucasus are Chechnya militants, who have trampled under foot all laws and standards of human morals none of our opponents has said.


This evoked the just anger of one of the members of the Russian delegation - Gadzhi Makhachev - who represented Daghestan, a republic bordering on Chechnya.


His speech was a slap in the face for critics of Russia. It is a fact that Chechen militants last August attacked Daghestan, destroyed dozens of its villages and killed over a thousand residents. Why did the PACE fail to utter a single word then?


Isn't it why many so-called "well-to-do" European countries are so tolerant of terrorists and bandits and even sometimes describe them as "freedom fighters" because they know about terrorism only by hearsay and have a poor idea of the horror of those crimes they are committing in Chechnya?


A different position is occupied by countries that are well familiar with terrorism and themselves have more than once suffered from it.


Support for Moscow's moves in the North Caucasus has been repeatedly voiced by Israel, China, India and some South American countries.


Measures being taken by Moscow meet with full understanding among Commonwealth of Independent States member-countries for which Chechen terrorism is by no means an abstract notion, but quite a real threat.


The PACE session has adopted a dangerous decision, showing there is a serious crisis in this organisation. Moscow, in my view, should recall its representatives from the PACE and stop taking part in its work until it revokes the anti-Russian resolution on Chechnya.


Yet one need not over-dramatise the situation. The PACE resolution has the form of a recommendation. Decision on Russia's Council of Europe membership will be taken by the Committee of Ministers, which includes statesmen far more responsible than PACE parliamentarians. They well understand the place and role of Russia in the system of European security and cannot but reckon with its prestige and status as a great power.


They are unlikely to take such an extreme step as Moscow's expulsion from the system of European relations. Especially since Moscow demonstrates the firmness of its position, confidence in its righteousness and an intention soon to bring the anti-terrorist operation to its logical conclusion

And kill'em all, kidnap and cut'em heads of infidels in Indonesia, Sudan, Chechnia, Keniya, Algeria, Nigeria!;o))
Yes - drum up the "mujaheed" hysteria for the East and the "humanitarian" hysteria for the West. "Mujaheeds" and "humanitarians" all in one.
P.S. The fun is that it puts people way back in historic development.