Abdullah -

Take a deep breath. In. Out. Feel better?

Now, Dec 11 was never a deadline to begin any military operation against Grozny. It may never be stormed. There's no need for it. Terrorists inside of Grozny are not going anywhere anytime soon, so why bother with it?

Bones, whoopsie - that Yugo Tribunal recently recognised only 2000 + dead, of which it's difficult to tell who's an ethnic Serb and who's an ethnic Albanian. Though, Serbs can present a name of each victim of NATO bombing frenzy. So, please, refrain from arguments of this particular type, - they don't hold air, let alone water.

Kissie,

What a sight that would be, you mean British cows might fly, before the French agree to eat them.

(Snigger)


"Shevardnadze"- shame he's busy,we could do with his approach right now.

I hadn't realised that Russia was honouring USSR debts- couldn't they spread it over the entire area?

Honestly the Bretton woods orgs. make less and less sense to me. Give with one hand take away with the other. Its a shame those debts couldn't be written off- like the third world debt.

Mind you the BBC "mind control machine" put out a Panarama Report last night that implies that the Russian Mafia aren't exactly helping. Did Yeltsin really embezzle those Millions,do you think? And why was the investigation stopped?

Unicef

To Unicef

I also watched the BBC Panorma program (via satellite) about the full extent of Russian crime, money laundering and extortion in the West. The full transcript is avaiable at:

www.bbc.co.uk/panorama

"Criminals are coming in who are wealthier and more vicious than any other criminals that you
or anybody on the continent have ever seen. As far as I'm concerned, they're the most
dangerous people on earth. People are much more afraid of the Russian Mafia than they are
of even the Columbians, the American Mafia or the Sicilians and Italian Mafia."

Adam R.
Santa Monica, California

To Unicef

I also watched the BBC Panorma program (via satellite) highlighting the full extent of Russian crime, money laundering and extortion in the West. The full transcript is avaiable at:

www.bbc.co.uk/panorama

Adam R.
Santa Monica, California

To all hypocrites who blamed the Russian Army of bein too tough on chechen civilians in Grozny and "poor freedom fighters",huh!

‘A tough policy will be pursued until the nest of terrorism in the North Caucasus is destroyed.’
— DMITRY YAKUSHKIN
Russian spokesman EMERGENCY SITUATIONS Minister Sergei Shoigu said Russian forces would interrupt combat operations to let civilians leave the city, and buses would be deployed on six routes to take refugees to Russian-controlled territory in the north.
Gen. Viktor Kazantsev, Russia’s military commander in Chechnya, has agreed to hold Russian forces’ fire over set periods, and the government will announce which routes were safe for civilians to use, Shoigu said.
He stressed that Saturday was not a “final deadline” for residents to leave the capital.
“What do you mean, ‘deadline?”’ he asked reporters. “What, is tomorrow the end of the world?”
Shoigu also indicated that he was prepared to hold negotiations with Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov — the first time a senior Russian official has shown willingness to meet with the Chechen leadership since federal forces attacked Chechnya in September.

Epilogue: No one is denying that there are numerous casualties among chechen civilians. But as lot of people quoted on this board: a war is a war, a la guerre comme a la guerre, na voine kak na voine, etc., etc., etc.
Check the links that Igor and Svoloch posted on this board to see what real barbarism looks like. I served my time in the Russian Army, which is definetely not the most sofisticated army, but to do what so-called "freedom fighters do"??? For people who don't know what I am talking about - Check this link, PLEASE DO - http://chechnya.gamma.ru/eng/default.htm

I belive Igor has already posted this link, so this is just a reminder.

Icould not sleep last night because after viewing the video I was profoundly affected especially when the Chechen plunged the knife in the Russian prisoners throat. I have seen the FACES OF DEATH video but it did not affect me like this. Iwill send this adress to all my friends so that they can be educated and can pass it on to their friends.I cannot believe that humanity can stoop so low. These people are the lowest form of animal. The militants do not deserve mercy and I hope they fry . The only thing the Russians will negotiate is passage for civilians,as for the militants they are going to hell.

Bjorktree You hit the nail on the head. Iagree with you 100%. In WW1 the British were printing up BP money in anticipation of taking the Caucases.

Kissie,

Sorry but before you quote numbers YOU better get them straight. And I'm not surprised you used Yugoslav numbers, since they're the ones that did most of the killing. Sorry everyone but Kissie made me paste this.

From March through June, an estimated 10,000 Albanians were killed, 1.5 million expelled from their homes, tens of thousands of homes in 1,200 cities damaged or destroyed and summary executions held at 500 sites across Kosovo, according to the report condemning Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic.

``This report is only a snapshot of the Milosevic regime's brutal, premeditated and systematic campaign,'' said the report called ``Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo: An Accounting.''

In a May report, the department had said at least 6,000 Kosovar Albanians were victims of mass murder, an unknown number died in individual killings, and an unknown number of bodies burned or destroyed by Serbian forces throughout the conflict.

Thursday's follow-up report said it drew new information from accounts by refugees, the press and relief and other agencies working in Kosovo at the time, as well as declassified information from government and international organizations.

``The evidence is also now clear that Serbian forces conducted a systematic campaign to burn or destroy bodies, or to bury the bodies, then rebury them to conceal evidence of Serbian crimes,'' the report said.

``The number of victims whose bodies have been burned or destroyed may never be known,'' the report said. ``But enough evidence has emerged to conclude that probably around 10,000 Kosovar Albanians were killed by Serbian forces.''

Others internationally have offered the same estimate, but the new 100-page report provides in catalogue-style the locations and details of 500 towns where atrocities occurred.

The bulk of the report dealt with killings, but it also included information on 10 other human rights abuses - forced expulsion, burning, looting, detentions, use of people as human shields, summary executions, the digging up of mass graves, systematic rape, attacks on medical patients and clinics and what officials called the new category of identity cleansing. Many Kosovar Albanians were stripped of their passports, car license plates, land titles and other documents.

Officials said the report is part of an international effort to provide a comprehensive look at atrocities in Kosovo before NATO troops arrived, provide some answers for families of people still missing and lay groundwork for trials of the perpetrators.

The report follows one issued last week by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which said revenge-motivated violence has accelerated since NATO-led peacekeepers arrived in Kosovo following the air campaign against Milosevic's government.

So as far as holding water, you may hold this.

To all residents of Grozny, and all supporters of Chechen milititians.

Have a nice weekends. Have fun. I hope I won't see on Monday.

Russian,

That was low, even for you.

Kim

Itoo am waiting for the weekend When the Russian army Will celebrate Ramadan with a big bonfire in Grozny. Cant wait to see those aerosol bombs going off.Some of you people should check out www.accuracy in media.org and read up on Kosovo to see how much propaganda the media in US andGB put out and then you will see the parallel.

Yesterday the busted 27 or so Eastern European Mafia members .Iam glad they are not calling them Russian Mafia since many of the names seem to be Jewish sonding {kaplan}. Thats in Toronto by the way.

Svoloch,

While it is true that most information I get and read is from the West, CNN/AP/Rueters/NY Times I have also read some NTV (I believe that's the name) So I'm far from ignorant on the subject. It just depends on who you trust to be more accurate. Example: I believe that the casualty figures the Russian military acknowledge are suspect. If the true numbers were released, It's my belief the popularity of this campaign wouldn't be so high. Not saying that it wouldn't continue mind you. With that said, I wonder how the upcoming elections would turn out. Would Putin still be the favorite to win or just another escape goat?

To Bones the large part of the Albanians that died did so as a result of the KLA hiding behind civilians just as the Chechens are doing. As for the figures ,UN says it was between 2000 and3000 and then how do you know that they are not the Serbs who have been Kidnapped. Also I heard that missing Serbs are being held in Albania.