To LittleR

you little minded russian's are so naive that you do not want to know and see the truth. If your govt wants to kill terroist then they have to kill themsef, because they are the big one.

Why killing innocent people? Because russia is a coward nations, rely on begging and VODKA.

You should learn lesson form AFGHNISTAN.
BUT YOUR GOVT IS DRUNKER, HE FORGOT IT.

HOPEFULLY THIS TIME WILL BE THE LAST TIME.

Why Russia Is Destroying Chechnya
By Yuri N. Maltsev
Source: The Mises Institute
Date: October, 1, 1999

Russia’s ruling elite finds incessant armed conflicts necessary for its own survival. Having claimedthat the intervention in Chechnya is meant to "punish terrorism" and defend Russians fromChechen terrorist bombings, Yeltsin’s government is unleashing another genocidal war againstChechnya and other Muslim parts of Russia. This perfectly illustrates the old Russian tradition ofcreating new problems, rather than solving existing ones.

It also resembles the "Wag the Dog" scenario at least as much as US bombings of the Sudanesepharmaceutical plant on the eve of Monica Lewinsky’s testimony. Bombings of apartmentcomplexes in Moscow and other Russian cities conveniently distract public attention from thegrim reality of corruption at the very top of the Russian hierarchy.

In fact, there is little or no evidence linking any of the apartment bombings to "Chechenterrorists." General Aleksandr Lebed, one of the most popular candidates for the Russianpresidency next year, believes that the so-called "terrorist bombings" were actually fabricated bythe Kremlin itself. Chechen rebel leader Shamil Basayev has proudly claimed previous terroristattacks on Russia, including a 1995 attack on a hospital in the village of Budyonnovsk, SouthernRussia. This time, however, he denies having anything to do with the bombings.

Like Lebed, Basayev believes these bombings are the work not of Chechens, but of the Kremlin or its politically active secret services, as a way of provoking chaos and swamping the comingpresidential elections. Vladimir Putin, an ex-KGB operative, may be the lynch pin: he is trying tosecure his claim to the presidency in June 2000 in the wake of the present nationalist hysteria.

"ABD" - The World Community is wide awake. Some of our friends on this board complain that it is too much awake and makes too many noises.
Why did we do it for East Timor or for Albanians in Kosovo (so much for you Muslem-non Muslem distinction)? Because we could.
Why won't we do it for Chechnya? Because we cannot. Even if situation would be identical, sometimes doing good means paying a price so huge, you have to forget about it. How many dead Americans would it cost to stop the slaughter in Rwanda? How close to a nuclear war would we come trying to "do something" about Tibet?
Of course, accusations of hypocrisy and double standards will follow. Well, sobaka layet, veter nosit as they say in Russia (not quite translatable; in a word, "let them talk")
Another, even harder question is what to do AFTER the immediate horrors have been stopped. It remains to be seen what will happen in Kosovo, Bosnia, East Timor. Nobody has any long-term plans. Chechnya is a case more complex than East Timor, even if Russia wouldn't be a prohibitive potential adversary.
In my view, US should take as many Chechen refugees as possible. That's about it. I see no other good ways to deal with the situation.

hey abd,

I know you, Chechens, are very sophisticated compare to Russians. But after Chechen freedom fighters go to a better place, we'll all be friends again. You will be happy find yourself in Moscow selling garlic and onion at a farm market.

To all you peons that support the militants. First of all these people are criminals .They receive their heroin from Pakistan and are selling it to the KLA {albanian mafia} who supply 75% of the heroin in Europe. They are also holding 900 people for ransom. The sooner the Russian army kills them all the better. And you Muslims who defend them check out the following : http://chechnya.gamma.ru/eng/default.htm As for Chechnya being a country ,it is not and never will be.If you support this militants then you are lowlifes like them and deserve to be crucified. Look at the Taliban, that is another bunch of fanatics. Someone should go in and carpet bomb the whole bunch.

John LOL I agree that Americans are nice people ,but your politics suck because as Trudeau said "we like America but we do not want to be part of them.

KIR YAKOLEV in KOSOVO the KLA was killing Serbs and then the Serb army went in to restore order in its own territory .NATO invaded a sovereign nation. As i write I am watching CNN INTERNATIONAL and they are talking about the bumper crop of heroin the Taliban has produced. And the are nice Muslims? Russia is defending its own sovereignty and has every right to do so.

Igor-
Apart from all the across-the-border jealousies and the fact that most of US is very much like most Canada in every respect - just to stick to the topic:
Canadian foreign policies on the issues discussed have not been any different from those of USA. On Chechnya, as a matter of fact, Canada has been more critical of Russian actions...

Kir Yakolev The reason Canada is like this is Because we have aLoser asskissing Prime Minister who have no clue and toe the party line{US}.

Igor-
I've never had anything good to say about KLA, and that was one of the reasons I have NOT approved the NATO actions in the beginning.
In the end, it all boils down (for me, at least) to the question whether or not the massive, systematic killings of Albanians alleged by a number of sources did take place. For me, even mass displacement and forced migration would not be sufficient to justify the NATO involvement.

Alas, all the subsequent investigations - done in the presence of Russians as well - have confirmed both the nature and the scope of atrocities.

There are still hard questions about acceptable risks, about international law, and how to prevent anti-Serb retaliations, and if Clinton and Co. had to push forward even though Congress refused to support the action - but the major question of moral legitimacy is gone. I was wrong, they were right.
The lesser evil was to bomb and to stop the massacre.

As for the "sovereignty" - sorry, I don't care much for the "sovereign" right of states to mass-murder their own citizens...

By abd ( - 129.106.142.195) on Saturday, December 11, 1999 - 03:54 pm:

Russia is using chemical weapons in Chechnya

Grozny, Chechnya
Source: Kavkaz-Tsentr
Date: December, 6, 1999

In my previous message I have pointed out what kavkaz.org is about and shall not repeat the examples of their lies.

As everyone knows, Russia, amongst other civilized countries, have signed the agreement NOT to use chemical weapons and so they stick to this.

As far as chlorine bombs go, here is what really goes on ( http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/082499/aviation/chechnya/121099.htm )

Chechen terrorists detonated a 60-ton container with a solution of oil and
chlorine. Detonation was calculated to create a poisonous cloud that would be
carried by wind to the village of Pervomayskoye. That's where Russian army
created an ID verification facility for Chechen refugees escaping from
Grozny. According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the cloud of
poisonous gas is currently moving at an altitude of about 250 meters toward
Pervomayskoye creating a serious threat to the refugees and local residents.
Russian biochemical defense battalion was dispatched to Pervomayskoye.
Chechen rebels promptly accused Russians of using chemical weapons.

Fenriz

As Isaid before most of thes militants are not Chechen .I believe Svoloch left a sight to check out on the history of the conflict.These fighters are from Algeria Morocco,Pakistan,Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and such have no business setting up Islamic Republics in Chechnya. These same people were in Kosovo too along with German ,French, American and other mercenaries.

To: Kir Yakovlev

Canada is VASTLY different than USA as far as internal structure is concerned, both economically and culturally.

As far as the external policies go, Canada has little choice but to dance by US wishes, as Canada's import to USA constitutes about 90% of Canada's total import woldwide; hence canadian economy greatly depends on US's due to demographic proximity. Of course, not all canadian foreign policies are carbon copies of US's; look for example at Canada/Cuba relationship vs US/Cuba's

Fenriz

FENRIZ check out site I left up the page

Igor -
I don't care much for your PM either , but isn't this a very simplistic view of events?

After all, Europe dragged US into NATO kicking and screaming when the alliance was born. And if you followed the Kosovo story carefully, you could notice that Tony Blair, for example, sounded much more militant than any American official. Furthermore, France, the country that always, always does everything possible to show the finger to Uncle Sam, this time had shown equally unrestrained military zeal. "Monopolar world", "American domination" are simple, easy concepts. The problem is, they are too simple to describe any real situation. In most American minds, there's no question that the Kosovo thing had most to do with the self-determination of the United Europe, and - "here we go again, Europeans are solving their problems on our backs". Indeed, Germany or Italy had a vital interest in stopping the refugee stream (being relatively closed, non-imigrant countries). USA? What, too much money, no ideas how to spend? Except for a tiny number of people interested in making some more missiles and even tinier number of journalists waiting for excitement, nobody in US could benefit from the war in any conceivable way. I'm not even talking about the costs to taxpayers...

Chechnya. Well, so far the angriest response came from Germany. An actual threat of suspending financial help (and they are the largest lender by far). Another case of being an American lap-dog?
Hardly.

And why to seek conspiracies when there's no need for them to explain things?
Is there a war?
Yes.
Are civilians suffering?
Yes, of course.
Did the USSR have a terrible record when it comes to treatment of its own citizens?
You bet.
Aren't the people in charge of everything in modern Russia former apparatchiks and KGBists? Yes, who else?
Did Putin present any evidence to support the link between terror in Moscow with Chechnya? Still waiting.

So, isn't it natural to be alarmed, and to assume the worst?

Humanitarian concerns may never outweigh other realpolitik issues, but you shouldn't assume that they never guide politicians at all. Appearing humane helps with elections, you know...