y WASPass,
Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 02:16 am:

The Quran is a fabrication of Muhammad.



There are so many examples. Here's a couple.

Will Christians enter Paradise or go to Hell? Sura 2:62 and 5:69 say "Yes", Sura 5:72 (just 3 verses later) and 3:85 say "No".

ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTIONS,

THESE VERSES NOT FROM QURAN, IT IS THE MEANING OF THE HOLI QURAN, BECAUSE QURAN IS IN ARABIC ONLY, FOR your knowledge.

2:62
:Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, [] whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve [].

that above verses apply to the time of the prophets, ask some one who knows about arabic. Sabians are a past nations before Moses used to live Musal(iraq) and said lailahaillAllh.(none has the right to be worshiped but The Creator) and they were neither jews nor christian.

SO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCD THE TRUTH AND LIE, TODYS JEWS AND CHRISTIANS ARE 100% DIFFERENTS THEAN THE TIME OF THE PROPHETS JESUS AND MOSES, LIKE PIGS ARE FORBIDDEN, WHY YOU EATING PIGS.

2) 3:85 And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers[].

THE MEANINGS OF ISLAM IS SURRENDER AND SUBMITT. SO THE ONE WHO SUBMITT TO HIS CREATOR ALONE WILL GO TO PRADISE, OTHER WISE HELL. Where did you find the contradiction? Stop lieing.

3) 5:72 Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allâh is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode[]. And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong­doers) there are no helpers.


WHEN DID JESUS SAID I AM GOD AND WORSHIP ME, YOU FOOL, JESUS WORSHIPED THE CREATOR EVERY DAYS SEVERALS TIME WITH FACE DOWN, LIKE MUSLIMS DO. Those who say Jesus is God Hell for one way. Wait for Jesus to come back He will Slaughter You like with the pigs.

STOP LIEING YOU SWINE EATER MONKYES.

IF YOU NEED TO LEARN QURAN LEARN ARABIC FIRST THEN SAY AND BRING YOUR PROOF AGANIST IT. What i posted is the meaning of the HOli Quran in english translations.


take some time off and read the quran, before you die, you might learn some things.

>> take some time off and read the quran, before you die, you might learn some things.

Thank you very much for you invitation to read quran (i wonder why you did not capitalized the holy book...).

However, once i think about possible consequences (which are evident in your messages), I would rather spend time eating pork than reading the holy book...


>>>LIKE PIGS ARE FORBIDDEN, WHY YOU EATING PIGS.

Caucasian, I'm curious if you are saying that there is no desire for independence from the regions of Kabardino-Balkaria, Karachai-Cherkessk, or Adyghe?
And to Fred, I agree that there are many so-called Muslims that give others a bad name. Especially that they seem to be the ones that tout the name of Islam without any sense of humility. The same, however, can be said about a busload of Christians who drove into a showing of The Last Temptation of Christ because they thought the movie blasphemous. Or what happened at Waco? Furthermore, as I believe G pointed out (and he did have a good few points, albeit a bit fabricated, seemingly), the Caucasus are not all Muslims. There are a good few Christians. And while the Chechens are a Muslim people, the same fate would be inflicted on a Christian Caucasus peoples. The only difference is that the West would probably be quicker to act.
And finally to Abdullah. You use "Jew" as an insult. Is this much better than someone persecuting a Muslim? Like much of the population of the Caucasus Mountains, if you speak to a Jew of Russian descent, they too will have stories of the excommunication of their families. There were even a couple of Jewish tribes in the mountains, among them the Noghay. Don't put this dispute on the base level of holier-than-thou name-calling.

ABDU the reason you bend down to prey is so you can take it up your arse you ficking gimp.Yanel ther is nothing to write about because the end is near for bandits , they have nothing to say .Allah lied to them again.

What the bloody hell are you talking about, you ignorant git? What do you get out of this message board? It's not source of intellectual debate for you (at least I hope that's not your version of debate). It's not even a verified bitching session. It seems more like an attempt at anonymous attention. Like you're rooting for a bloody football team. Grow up.

I guess we went astray, talking too much about Muslim and Christins, as if Russians came to Chechnya to fight "Muslim terrorism". judging from the history of Russian empire for the last hundreds of years, they were much more concerned about the expansion of their territories, and this motive apperas to be the real one this time again. What can be done to contain the Russian expansionist (so that they do not start the same fight with Gerogia, etc.) is much more difficult problem, hardly clear now...

yanal, effendi
dont be surprised if your attempting to make sense
doesnt make a lot of sense here...

....and KEE-RIST matteson/mattheson/zzz, learn how
to spell your own fake name...sheesh.

Thursday 23 December 1999 More than 120 Killed and 90 Captured

The operations do not seize to continue around the capital from all directions. Today, Allah gave the Mujahideen the ability to achieve numerous victories in the field of operations. In spite of the Russians trying to protect their honour and to quickly resolve the operation surrounding the capital, each time they increase their attacks, their losses also increase. In the last operation, which is still continuing during the writing of this news report, the Mujahideen confirmed that the Russians inflicted heavy losses of at least 120 killed and 90 captured, as they also shot down a plane vertically over the capital. The operations do not seize to continue; we ask Allah to drive the Russians back to where they came from, as losers, and to make them either from the killed or the captives, indeed He is All-Powerful, All-Mighty.

Friday 24 December 1999 A Painful Blow Received by Ahmad Qaadiryov and His Helpers

Allah drove the hypocrites, the army of the Mufti Ahmad Qaadiryov and the governor Sulim, back to where they came from. In this delightful event, Allah gave the Mujahideen control over the people of hypocrisy. This was after they tried to attack the capital. The Russian Forces recruited a number of them via the opposing self-acclaimed government. After they finished their preparation, they pushed with a large group from amongst them towards the capital, trying to attack it, except that Allah honoured the Mujahideen and cured their breasts. The Mujahideen killed 60 of the hypocrites and captured another group, and the rest fled after dropping their weapons for the Mujahideen, and those who were saved announced that they would never dive into any operation against the Mujahideen.

2 Abdulla,

Abdulla, where are you getting all these interesting Mujahideen news? Would you please share your link? Thank you.

To

By WASP ( - 205.243.166.83) on Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 02:16 am:
The Quran is a fabrication of Muhammad.

Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
Had it been from other than Allah,
they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.
-- Sura 4:82

(This verse claims there is no contradiction in the Quran, but there is, so it must be from other than Allah. A camel jockey perhaps.

There are so many examples. Here's a couple.

Will Christians enter Paradise or go to Hell? Sura 2:62 and 5:69 say "Yes", Sura 5:72 (just 3 verses later) and 3:85 say "No".

Wine: Good or bad? Strong drink and ... are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. [5:90, also 2:219]. Yet on the other hand in Paradise are rivers of wine [47:15, also 83:22,25]. How does Satan's handiwork get into Paradise?

I have yet to find Muhammed mentioned in the Bible by name. )
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“Surely those who believed and those who were Jews and the Sebeans and the Christians whoever believed in Allah and the last day and did good-they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve” Sura 5, verse 69

Before Mohamed was send, many great prophets like Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them) have been sent to human race, Some people believed in them and believed in Allah and last day and did good. Those people shall have no fear nor shall they grieve and so on. Every one who followed his prophet before Mohamed, will have no fear nor shall he or she grieves in the last day. NOW, after the sending of Mohamed, EVERY ONE SHOULD FOLLOW HIM, AS HE IS THE LAST PROPHET, THOSE WHO WILL NOT FOLLOW HIM WILL NEVER ENTER THE PARADISE.

I hope you understand that, and before I refute your second accusation, I want to ask you one question. Based on your belief we are born with sins that we have inherited from Adam (PBUH). What is the fate of those people who lived before Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) and did not see him or believe in him? Can you answer me ? those people did not get salvated, those people did not believe in Jesus Christ, what is their fate ? Your Bible can not answer that question my friend. Look at the greatness and mercy of Islam, it did not close the door for those people who believed in Allah, and his prophets who were sent before Mohamed. Why ? because all prophets are brothers, and they have one message, just one message, “WORSHIP ALLAH, AND DO NOT ASS0CIATE ANY THING WITH HIM”. We Muslims, worship Allah, only Allah, we do not worship Mohamed, or Jesus or Moses ( Peace be upon them). How about you ? you worship three gods and you claim that they are one, the father, the son and the holy spirit.

Now, your second accusation:

“O ye who believe! Strong drinks and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of satan’s handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed.” Sura 5, verse 90

This verse describes the worldly wine, and not just wine, any thing that can make us loose our conscious is not allowed in Islam. Based on this verse we are not allowed to drink wine.


“A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty ( to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their lord……………………” Surra 47, verse 15

this verse talks about the paradise, and many things in the paradise will be different from our world’s, one of them is wine. This wine is delicious- I hope I try it- and it does not make us loose our conscious, you can find a description of that wine in Surra 52, verse 23.

“There they pass from hand to hand a cup wherein is neither vanity nor cause of sin”
You see, the verse is so clear, that the wine of the paradise has no vanity or sin. No one will loose his conscious because of it.


Now, your last statement:
I have yet to find Muhammed mentioned in the Bible by name.

Mohamed was mentioned in both the old testament and the new testament. Before we go on, you have to know that Mohamed ( PBUH) was illiterate, he could not read or write. And he has another name which is Ahmed ( it means the more thankful).

1- Old Testament
Deuteronomy 18, 18

“ I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethern, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him”

God says to Moses, that he will send a prophet like him, and will put his words in his mouth. There are many prophecies in the bible about new prophets, but this is the only one you can find such a statement “will put my words in his mouth” . Why does Allah will put his words in his mouth? Allah did not say something like that in any other prophecy, why there is a stress on something like that “will put my words in his mouth” , Because this prophet will not be able to read or write, so words have to be put in his mouth as a way of learning. Mohamed was the only illiterate prophet. One question, Do you think an illiterate man can write a book like The Quran ?

Before I move to the new testament, I display two statements from two prominent scientists

1- Professor Keith Moore, one of the world’s prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology. University of Toronto, Canada
“It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from Allah, or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of Allah. “

2- Dr. T.V.N. Persaud is a Professor of Anatomy and Head of the Department of Anatomy, and a professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. He is the author or editor of 25 books, and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada.

"It seems to me that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read or write. In fact, he was illiterate. We are talking about 1400 years ago. You have someone who was illiterate making profound pronouncement and statements and are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. I personally cannot see how this could be mere chance. There are too many accuracy’s and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind in concerning that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements."


If you want more go to this site, www.beconvinced.com

{ http://www.beconvinced.com/science/QURANMS.htm ,
http://www.beconvinced.com/science/QURANMS.htm }

A book by Dr. Maurice Bucaille. (The Quran and Modern Science )
By the way, this man wrote a book called “"THE BIBLE, THE QUR'AN AND SCIENCE" which shows that the bible does not get a long with modern science, but Quran has no contradictions in terms of modern science.


Now Mohamed in the new testament:

I think you might get shocked when you know that Mohamed was mentioned by name in the new testament, but unfortunately, it was erased and changed.He was mentioned by his name “Ahmed”.

[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John, 16

If you can find an old version of King James, you will find another word instead of comforter, you will find the word “Perioceltos”. For many centuries, the bible was printed with that word, but latter they changed it to comforter, and the christian scholars claim that it is about the Holy Spirit.

Now what does the word Ahmed mean in Arabic ? it means the more thankful, someone who thanks Allah, many times. By the way, all names in Arabic language has meanings. Perioceltos is a greek word it means the more thankful, and if you want to translate it into Arabic in one word the right translation is “Ahmed”.

My friend, I know one priest in Egypt, who converted to Islam, and one of the reasons that made him convert to Islam was this verse, His name was Ibrahim Khalil Philps and after he converted to Islam he changed his name to Ibrahim Khalil Ahmed. He wrote many books about Islam and Mohamed here are some of them :

- Forgiveness between Islam and Christianity
- Mohamed in the Quran, the new testament and the old testament.

The problem is that these books are in Arabic, and there is a very nice book called “Mohamed in the new testament” it a doctorate message for an islamic scholar, his name is “Ahmaed Hegazy El Saka”. He got his Phd, because of that word, peroclotos.

Finally, I like to repeat the Quranic verse
“Do they not ponder on the Qur'an? Had it been from other than Allah,they would surely have found therein much discrepancy. “
-- Sura 4:82

Best luck for you, and I hope I have answered you in a convincing way, and I hope you use a scientific way and a decent one when you talk about other's belief.

Russians fight into Grozny
GROZNY, Russia, Dec 25 (AFP) -
Russian forces Sunday continued a cautious attack on Grozny, pulling back when they came under fire from an estimated 2,000 rebels holed up in the city.

"The Russians are retreating each time they get into a fight," an AFP correspondent on the front line reported. "They are not storming it" like they did during the futile 1994-96 war.

The federal troops made their best progress on the southern and eastern fronts, according to soldiers. However there were Russian casualties, although people in charge refused to give any figures.

The AFP correspondent said that perhaps 2,000 of the estimated 100,000 Russian forces encircling Grozny had so far entered the rebel capital.

2 Abd

Aren't there are Muslim-oriented chatrooms, so that you would show off your beliefs according to the topic of discussion. But for your nuissance messages, nobody would care about Muslims here.

y Balalaika ( - 210.138.34.100)

I thank you for your opinion, every one has one, so do you.

I guess recent continuation of anti-terrorists operation around Grozny has a very bad affect on Abdulla & co.

I hear bandits are desperate and started circulating their torture videos of soldiers and civilians. They want to intimidate Russian troops but I think their not-very-thought-out plan is going to backfire.

P.S. Saw new footage of action around Grozny on CNN. And if that what terrorists call a "low morale" of Russian army.. for their own sake they better not get Russians in a good mood.