To locc and anit christ peoples

The Reality of JESUS


Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy Trinity". However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context:

1. God Is All Knowing.....But Jesus Was Not

When speaking of the Day of Judgement, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt. 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the Day of Judgement would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.

2. God Is All-Powerful.....But Jesus Was Not

While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 5:19). Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only All-Powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God Does Not Have A God.....But Jesus Did Have A God

God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was One whom he worshipped and to Whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17). He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46). If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?". Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's Prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt. 26:36). Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

According to the Bible, God is an invisible spirit....

4. But Jesus Was Flesh And Blood

While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said: "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18). "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37) He also said in John 4:24: "God is a spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

NO ONE IS GREATER THAN GOD AND NO ONE CAN DIRECT HIM...
BUT JESUS ACKNOWLEDGED
SOMEONE GREATER THAN HIMSELF WHOSE...
5. Will Was Distinct From His Own

Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, comes again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28: "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as a good master in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded: "Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." (John 8:42) Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God, when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but Thine be done" and in John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.

Conclusion
The Church recognises the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis have you come to believe otherwise?

The belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.

What Is The Word Of God About Jesus:
A. Regarding The Sonship Of Jesus:
“Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be" and it is.”
Chapter 19, Verses 34-35

“They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At if the skies are ready to burst the earth to split asunder and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin. That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.”
Chapter 19, Verses 88-93

“This similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam: He created him from dust then said to him: "Be" and he was.”
Chapter 3, Verse 59

“O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of Allah and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One Allah: glory be to him: (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”
Chapter 4, Verse 171

B. Regarding Jesus Being God:
“And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! didst thou say unto men `worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say to wit `Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them and Thou art a Witness to all things.” Chapter 5, Verses 116-117 C. Regarding Crucifixion Of Jesus

“That they rejected faith: that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge. That they said (in boast) "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary the Apostle of Allah"; but they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not. Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power Wise. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.”
Chapter 4, Verses 156-159

All Quranic quotations have been taken from the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of “The Meaning of the Holy Qur’an”, published by Amana Corporation, Brentwood, Maryland, USA, 1993

All Biblical quotations have been taken from The Holy Bible (Authorised King James Version), Riverside Book & Bible House, Iowa Falls, IA50126, published by World Bible Publishers, Inc.

To

(By a muslim on Wednesday, December 8, 1999 - 09:27 am: )

Do not think they will understand that my brother. They believe that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

I was talking to a priest before, and I asked him, "how did you underrstand that the father is a god, the son is a god, and the holy spirit is a god, and they are all ONE GOD ? " I have got a very good answer from him, do you what was it ?. It was a SMILE.

Mahmoud,

You immediately assume that I must be a Christian.
I would say that most religions are backward.
With the possible exception of Buddhism.
Which incidently I am not a member of.

However at least in secular countries you have a choice.
I'm uncomfortable with the "total way of life" approach.

Female chauvenist

to kim and russian and the fake Putin.

Life is a blessing and death is a honour for the chechens.

Under barbaric cowerdly attacks.
If the russians were men they would fight face to face. and not kill inocent women and children.

brave are those who stand for what they belive.
as for Kim answer to the Mujahideen a suicide sect.
if you had a child and a stranger attack that child it would be duty as a parent to defend yourself. it is the same as the chechens are doing.
I rest my case.
Reference all Human rights and international codes. Which Corrupted russian Generals ans politicians doesnt belive in.

Russia should have defended their national interest in Serbia and help Serbs against the Nazi NATO bombing of "collateral" innocent people. The way Russia is treating terrorists in Chechnya is appropriate, but they should have assisted Serbs to do the same thing with their terrorists. It is the same problem, just US would not dare to go and bomb Russia! US and NATO have no moral right to even comment on Chechnya after they have done those crimes against Serbs!

Putin and his K will lose this new war in Chechnya!

Chechen Republic of Ichkeria will win and will be recognised as an independent State!

To Nick Grado:

The question is whether russians have moral right to eliminate ALL people in Grozny, not whether the west has right to comment on it.
According to your logic everything is justified if nobody looking on what you are doing. You managed to deny virtually all Russian history and spirit in just one paragraph.

L'menexe,

Do I really have to grovel?

I promise not to use L'menexe as a message service
I promise not to use L'menexe as a message service
I promise not to use L'menexe as a message service
I promise not to use L'menexe as a message service
I promise not to use L'menexe as a message service
I promise not to use L'menexe as a message service
I promise not ....

would you please forward kissie's document.
pretty please with a big fat cherry on top...

K.A.

Ich glaube,der spiel ist aus!!

IS IT SATURDAY YET???

Johnie, is that you,dear?
Kim

"What should be the role of the international community concerning the russian bombardment of chechnya?"

My opinion:

The international community is obliged to IMMEDIATELY get into action to do whatever is necessary to halt this barbaric military agression, which - in my opinion - is a genocidal action, reminiscent of the Nazi- and Stalin eras earlier this century.
Why should the international community act?
1. This so-called anti-terrorist campaign is in fact a genocidal military assault on the entire chechen population, in particular innocent women and children. This is evident from news reports all over. With our modern communication systems (including the internet) nobody can hide the truth any more. The international community cannot say: Well, we didn't really know what was going on?". There is absolutely no question: We are experiencing the murderous killing of countless innocent women and children at this very moment.
2) We also know that this military action will not result in a lasting solution. On the contrary, I anticipate a rise in terrorism against russia and more political instability in the Kaukasus region and elsewhere in russia (other minorities). In particular, the chechens will finally resort to more extremism (islamic fundamentalism), since there is no other moderate alternative available. Any russian puppet regime will not be tolerated.
3) The costs and the political fallout of this war will probably have enormous negative effects on the russian economy and consequently on the suffering russian population. The medium term result could be a further swing to political extremism (KGB, military, state control...) in russia.
4) The international community has to seriously consider that once and for all any serious threat agains humanity has to be dealt with a firm hand. The notion that any country can simply do want it wants within its borders should not be accepted.
It is further important to act as soon as we can.
Examples:
WWII could have been completely avoided would the world have acted early on instead of appeasing the Nazis (Hitler's Germany was a nothing militarily at first).
The danger of the Serb expansionism for a Greater Serbia, exploited later fully by Milosevic, was known to Tito. Tito established a mechanism to subdue this destructive idea (of extreme nationalism). Serb revenge actions against various minorities in Serbia was widespread after WWII, particularly against the Albanians in Kosovo. After Tito's death and Milosevic's rise the fate for the Albanians in Kosovo worsened. If the international community would have acted early on,a Nato bombing campaign would have been avoided - and Milosevic would have been history for sure.
Srebenica would not have happened, had the international community acted firmly early on, instead of allowing the United Nations to "look on and do nothing". The killing of innocent people and the rape of so many women could have been avoided.
And so on.
Final thought: I cannot see any positive solution coming out of russia's military campaign. The only solution is the immediate halt of military action and negotiations for peace, full independence for chechnya and the establishment of a common mechanism against further terrorism.

Hum, the system has some flaws, I think.

Hey Dan V., What's your take on all of this. Have you shown any of it to Daryl S.? Are you pulling shippers now?

Luna,

I agree with your reasons for the int.comm. to get involved.
The question is what can they do?

"It is in our interest to maintain a strong and stable Russia" - Robin Cook , British Foreign minister.

To withdraw financial aid goes against this aim.
To let the war continue does the same.

I guess we will only know from hindsight if the"international community" did the right thing. If not I guess the "West" will have egg on its face again.

Most likely we will hear all about it on this site.

Kim