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Archive through December 9, 1999

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(@kissie)
Eminent Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

John McShea, since the (recent) first "Chechen war" ended, and Chechnya got a de-facto independence, Chechnya got transferred 2 bln. US, excluded from that sum were free power, supplied in good faith, and the Azerbajani crude, that used to disappear on a regular basis in the unknown direction from the Baku-Novorosysk pipeline, and Russian TransOil used to get all the blame from Azerbajanis (and pay for it). (Don't You think, that wasn't enough for a start of developing of their own "state"?) All that was used instead to finance Jihad Co.Unlimited - for those, who needs to prop banditry by faith, you know, grandeur, in style; and various small "private enterprises" - for those "poor, uneducated, but tough and proud mountain" child molesters, kidnappers, and general scumbags without any particular niche in the Chechen gangster infrastrucutre.


   
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(@saladin)
Estimable Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 105
 

Who’s really in charge in Russia?

NEW YORK - A creeping coup in Moscow by military and security hard- liners has been underway for the past three months, leaving President Boris Yeltsin an isolated, increasingly irrelevant figurehead.

Until recently, no one person or group was fully in charge of Russia’s fragmented political system. Rival factions vied for power in a modern form of tribal warfare. Financial fortunes amassed through corruption and crime were used to buy political power, which was then used to make yet more illicit fortunes. The chief protagonists in this brutal Darwinist drama were Yeltsin and his coterie, financed by huge infusions of western cash; the military, interior ministry and security establishment; a group of business tycoons and their media networks; the state bureaucracy; and various mafias, who run 60% of Russia’s business.

This barely controlled chaos began to change in late August. Boris Yeltsin, according to information this column has received from Moscow, was forced under threat of ouster, to appoint an unknown KGB officer, Vladimir Putin, as prime minister. At first, the hatchet-faced Putin was dismissed as non- entity who would soon be replaced in Yeltsin’s game of musical prime ministers. But the dour Putin, displaying remarkable skill for a former intelligence appartchik, quickly solidified his power base and took charge.

In fact, Putin was the frontman for an ad hoc coalition of Russia’s security organs: the armed forces, Ministry of the Interior, and the internal security service, FSB, and the external spy service, SVR – or KGB, as they are both still universally known.

One of the new coalition’s first act was to go after key Yeltsin ally, billionaire robber baron Boris Berezovsky. He was accused of a variety of crimes and put under investigation. Curiously, Berezovsky had channeled US $1 million to the Chechens– for reasons that still remain obscure.

A series of mysterious bomb attacks on apartment buildings killed 300 people. Moscow blamed Chechens, who, after 250 years of bitter resistance, had broken away from Russian rule during a bitter war in 1994-1996. The awkward fact that a group of Russian security agents were caught red- handed planting explosives was covered up.

Taking a leaf from Serb propaganda strategy in Kosovo, Putin and his allies whipped up hatred of Chechens, inciting Slavic nationalism and traditional Russian racism against Muslims and darker-skinned people, and proclaimed a crusade against `Islamic terrorists’ and `bandits’ (Chechens).

Moscow’s propaganda organs went into high gear, trumpeting Russia was waging a `war against terrorism,’ and claiming, without any evidence, that the shadowy Osama Bib Laden was behind the Chechen insurgents. This clever ploy neatly scotched criticism from the Clinton Administration, which had also proclaimed a crusade against Islamic malefactors and was waging its own mini-war against Iraq.

The Russian armed forces and KGB thirsted for revenge for their previous defeat in Chechnya (Ishkeria, as Chechen call it). Using the apartment bombings and a minor Chechen incursion into Dagestan as a pretext, 100,000 Russian troops launched a massive, scorched earth campaign that seemed designed to kill as many Chechen as possible, raze all towns and villages that resisted, and bring the rebellious region to heel by making a desert and calling it peace. To date, 250,000 Chechens have become refugees.

In November, Yeltsin, under growing pressure from western public opinion, tried to rein in his generals. A number of senior officers, including the chief of staff and the commander of Russian forces in Chechnya, openly refused to obey Kremlin orders to relent, and threatened mass resignations or an outright putsch.

Meanwhile, the ailing, 68-year old Yeltsin, was increasingly sidelined while his allies were being steadily eliminated by the hard liners. This week, Yeltsin, whose immune system has been gravely weakened by heart bypass surgery, was in the hospital with pneumonia for the second time in two months. He is reported to be seriously ill. The triumverate of the military, interior ministry, and KGB led by Putin is now running day-to-day government business in Russia.

Neither Washington nor its allies, including Canada, know how to react to the stealthy coup. They keep pretending Yeltsin and his crew are still in full charge, and continue pouring money in to buy Russia’s `good’ behavior. Just as the US-controlled International Monetary Fund was announcing a further US$700 million `loan’ to Moscow, Putin declared bankrupt Russia would spend another $US110 million on war in Chechnya, which has already cost Moscow some $1.2 billion.

Russian soldiers fighting in Chechnya receive a special US $1,000 monthly cash bonus – a whopping sum for Russia, where the average monthly salary is $60. Small wonder Chechen and their increasingly enraged supporters around the world believe the US is financing Russia’s savage war in the Caucasus.

Putin’s anti-Chechen crusade and resulting war hysteria in Russia has silenced all domestic criticism of the government. It has also taken the wind out of the sails of the major opposition political movement, led by Moscow’s capable mayor, Yuri Luzkhov and former prime minister, Yevgenny Primakov. Even the huge theft and money laundering scandal that threatened to engulf the Yeltsin regime and curtail the inflow of US money has now been forgotten - thanks to the convenient little war in Chechnya.


   
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(@dimitri)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2221
 

To Saladin:

I can Copy and Paste just as many articles from newspapers as you can, that will speak in my favour. But wow about usin' your own brain to argue you own point???


   
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(@kissie)
Eminent Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter  

I wonder if Mssrs. Luzhkov and Primakov have paid for that article?


   
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(@christopherjohnson)
New Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 2
 

Saladin,

That's not how I heard it. I heard that most of the Dagestanis didn't want anything to do with the Chechen invasion and that's why it failed. And how, exactly, can the US be a partner in all this when Mr. Clinton and his manservant Mr. Blair have been condemning all this. As for your statement about all that region falling under Islam, thanks for the candor. I've heard that's another one of the reasons the Russians are doing what they're doing.

God is, indeed, great. And so is His Son and the world's Risen Savior Jesus Christ.


   
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(@rednecksmitty)
New Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 1
 

late last night as i lay in bed thinking about little children, old folks, rest homes hospitals, bridges with, with families goneing to church or shopping for food, or medicine, and the bombs began to fall on them without reason. i have to wonder what they thank of us killers. for this was not russian troops, but american s; in serbia; in veitnam; in iraq; in colombia{we invented abruse here to create panama , which gave us land for a canel} colombia did not want a foriegn owned canal thur their country, so hell we just split the little fuckers up. so why should russia not keep what is legally theirs for thousands of years oh i forgot to mention the bombs falling on atlanta, georgia, these were american bombs also;


   
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(@adamr)
Eminent Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 30
 

Dimitri

I have no desire to call the Russians names. I doubt if words in the English vocabulary exist to describe the low level to which Russians have sunk.

Kissie

For you to talk about jihad unlimited is as relevant as for me to say there is an international world wide jewish conspiracy, with jewish control of crime, money, media etc.
Keep talking about jihad unlimited and I promise you I will display copious amounts of information about jewish fundamentalism,terrorism and the multi-billion dollar crimes jews commit. Get the message?

Adam R.
Santa Monica, California


   
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(@leatherneck)
New Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 2
 

adam are you sure you are not from san fransico you little fairy god idiot.


   
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(@leatherneck)
New Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 2
 

adam are you sure you are not from san fransico you little fairy god idiot.


   
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 locc
(@locc)
New Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 1
 

TO EVERYBODY:
PEOPLE, STOP QUOTING! SPEAK YOUR OWN MIND. OR YOU ARE TO RETARDED TO HAVE YOUR OWN OPINION?
OTHER THING, HALF-MILE QUOTES ARE JUST ANNOYING, FOLLOW THE RULES OF SIMPLICITY.


   
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(@kimarx)
Eminent Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 38
 

DIM itry.

You as yet have not contributed anything to this board, apart from attacking people who have opinions to share. You have no humour, you just attack others to feel better about yourself, a classic bully. Disagreements with our rightwing friend john Rambo were reasonably light hearted.
Others have used humour to deal with these characters. Like your friend Russian for instance who now appears to be your buddy- For a while there you were convinced that he was Rambo. Is this why you are attacking me now- cause I had a laugh with Rambo.
==================================================
"When you enter a discussion such as this one and operate with facts, make sure you know what you're talking about. Another words, know your s..t. Ukraine, Lithuania and all other former republics were separate countries before Soviet Union. Chechnya wasn't. It belonged to Russian Empire long before the Revolution has occured. Therefore obligation to let things go,which is just what medievil-governed Chechnya wants, isn't an option."


You seem to have swallowed Putin's propaganda whole. This guy would do anything to get into power including starting a war. ( HE's not the first to do it Thatcher did it ,Bush, Clinton, etc, etc)
What does it matter what label Chechnia has?
country, state, provincial backwater - It does not want to be part of Russia or its federation.
And as for the Russian Empire, it was a dictatorship.(Or was the Tsar was a democrat)

It's not like countries such as Lithuania were allowed to leave just like that. They were invaded by Russian tanks, bullied and intimidated.
Its just that Gorbi didn't sanction a 1968 style invasion.

Does Putin have any other policies apart from pissing of every international organisation there is and biting the hand that feeds him.
What about paying the people owed three years wages. What is he going to do about the rampant spread of drug-resistant TB. When will your country get decent roads and housing. Does going to war make you feel strong and able to forget about these problems?

Or is bullying people just a Russian trait.
==================================================
LOCC another bully -feels big in a pack (of schoolboys)

Who elected you as spokes person?
As yet you have contributed diddly..

PLease keep the quotes coming in- they make a worthwhile contribution to the discussion unlike our russian friends-

Kim Arx


   
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(@jimmynazary)
New Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 1
 

In my opinion, Russia is fighting this war mainly for the money. They are hoping that the purchasing of materials for this war like tanks, jets, etc... will help boost their economy. After all, it was World War 2 that brought the U.S. out of the Great Depression.


   
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(@braveheart)
Active Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 6
 

The russians started using chemical weapons. where is the united nations ? Where is the leader of the world USA ? and finally, where are the great Arabian and Muslim presidents and kings ? May Allah send his mercy upon muslims of Chechen and give the Mujahedeen over there a victory from him.


   
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(@dimitri)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2221
 

kim arx,

you can call me bully, shmulli, etc.., etc.I am just very glad I got to you..At least I can say that I am a patriot and not an internaional prostitude, such as youself. Stop bringing Putin into this, you really being an ass now - he has absolutely nothing with my opinion, take my word for it.

I am quoting you, Kimmie, darlin':

"What about paying the people owed three years wages. What is he going to do about the rampant spread of drug-resistant TB. When will your country get decent roads and housing. Does going to war make you feel strong and able to forget about these problems? "

Do all of us a big favor- stop pretending that you care about us. Just don't go there, I mean it.

P.S. Next time, before accusing me of being a bully, take a gooood, looong ••••••• look at my message(s), and then open your mouth - I do not bully - I defend MY POINT OF VIEW.
I also have a great sense of humor, I just really see no point of being humorous with people as extreme in their opinion as the CamelJack John Rambo ( I quoted my buddy Svoloch). And I, most certainly, won't be practicing my jocks with you. Maybe ON you.....I'll let you decide.
A la guerre comme a la guerre (sorry if the spelling is incorrect).

P.P.S. What language were you trying to speak with LOCC and I?


   
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(@braveheart)
Active Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 6
 

Q.If Chechnya was able to establish their independence, would they as an autonomous nation be able to survive in the current economic world?

My answer is YES. Let us suppose that the answer is no, will this answer justify the russian madness ?


   
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