By Turk:
"""So 509 persons are liquidated. This is infact what you are saying, if one looks beyond the spin-doctoring. """


but yes, Mr.Spin-Doctor, but of course, Mr.Spin-Doctor, oh MASTER of all spindocs..

Gonzo,

You are just talking sense. And I agree with you on both occasions.

As you said, Russia used some allegations -like kidnapping, torturing, bombing of the apartment buildings etc.- to invade Chechnya. They said they would bring an end to lawlessness. Now I don't believe, or agree with these allegations, as they are war propaganda by a criminal state hell-bent on destroying Chechen population. However this was what they said.

Now, what Russia does in Chechnya? Are they taking the higher moral ground, and displaying to the world how kind they are? No, they are in fact committing many, many times worse attrocities against innocent Chechen people than their allegations.

And what we do see on this board. Declarions of support and understanding of these gross human rights violations.

This is the kind of behaviour making me sick. Such a HYPOCRACY.

Russians deny Human Rights violations, then they cheer, and express support for the same violations. They want us to believe that they are a normal, decent, civilized bunch of people, then they prove that they are completely opposite with their posts. Don't you think they are acting in a deceitful manner, as if everyone else is fool not to see truth from lies and propaganda.

When I call them sub-human, this is the reason, not that they are physically any different.

Vasiliy,

don't bother asking Mr.Chameleon(Turk) about Turkey and Kurds, he just will NOT get into this route..it is too slippery for him
and when I asked him, he never had enough guts to respond in a honest manner..just blabbered something about the Past, that's about it..

Dimitri, does a "people's wrath" ring a bell? That's how some folks in your country used to call pogroms.

According to Mr. Kovalyov Russian military campaign is close to genocide. You may disagree with him, but picturing possible war criminals as warriors, hot from the battle, doesn't cut it.

>>>By Dimitri ( - 208.198.122.14) on Friday, February 18, 2000 - 05:46 pm:

Gonzo,

Damn good post! Hats off to you, sir....THEN USUAL DIMITRI BULL-SHITE.. go tell it to the soldiers, who throughout this campaign learn to hate the TRUE-TORTURES! >>>

So they became TRUE, TRUER, TRUEST-TORTURERS. I agree with you on this, however I don't buy your reasoning why these soldiers became TRUEST-TORTURERS. It was due to their racist and uncivilised upbringing. Just look at this board, any one of you can torture with great pleasure.

Dimitri, yes revenge in war is not new. A matter of fact it is this day in age for the first time reports of such things hit the public in such a quick manner. How many years after the Mi-Li massacre was that exposed. I think people today would like to think war can be an antaseptic thing. Like the gulf war on TV even though it was much more bloodier than broadcasted. In war civilians get killed. Things people think is in-human happen, and people don't want to face the fact it happens. In Kosovo there was like a weekly report with the names of people accdently killed by NATO bombs. Some expressed how horrible this was. With out trying to sound cold blooded in war, no matter how much one thinks it is wrong, these things happen. The only way to not to have a civilian killed or effected by war in an awful manner is not to have a war at all. I think this will never happen at least not in my lifetime. Man kind doesn't seem to be able to solve their problems with just talk in a lot of cases where the hatred and the goals one searches to achive run so deep. Both sides have chosen to take up arms to resolve this conflict so both sides should be ready to face the fact both sides are going to get bad press about the treatment of non-coms , the only question that remains is how harsh will the drive to avenge or seek revenge to satisfy one own desire for satisfaction for what one thinks is the wrong done to them. Others will sit in judgement and so will History (who ever gets to write it) if thoes actions were in some manner justified.

Now after that rambleing statement I doubt the actions the some claims the Russians have made that led to atrocies against Chechens are or were ordered by the Russian command. In most cases in war atrocies are made on the grunt level (with the eception of Hitler and the Comer Rouge (sp)

To: Forpe
Don't take it personally but you must remember the commercial where a small boy says "AOL is so easy even my dad uses it". I've heard another version of the same commercial "My dad is so dumb, he uses AOL"

Just a thought about Turkey. Now Turkey is fighting the Kurds to keep them from taking the land they occupy in Turkeyand make it a different country. The Chechens are fighting the Russians to chop a little bit out of Russia and make there own country. Looks like the same thing to me. (of course it is much more complacated). Maybe the Kerds and chechens should call NATO , like in that Kosovo thing. Nah never happen NATOs not coming. No reason to start WWIII over Chechnya, the west doesn't care that much, if at all.

To: Dima
Yes, you are absolutely right my friend, Mr. Proud Turk is only shitting on other nations' problems forgetting that there's a lot of brown stuff in his own back yard.

I'm sorry to say Vasiliy, but in Frisco not all servers that secured on ports under 80.

SULEYMAN, TURKEY MUST THANK YOU. IF YOU WOULDN'T WRITE THAT POST ABOUT TURKEY, I WOULD THINK THAT ALL TURKS ARE LIKE "TURK" WHO POSTS HERE. IT'S NICE TO KNOW THAT SOME TURKS, OR AT LEAST THEIR DESCENDANTS, HAVE COMMON SENSE. ONCE AGAIN, TURKISH GOVERNMENT MUST AWARD YOU. I'M NOT KIDDING.

To: Forpe
Kiss my one-way firewall in port 80 Mr. Wanna-be-hacker.

Vas, One thing I enjoy about being an American is that the USA is priety much a young country and doesn't have to deal with little border disputes, ethnic rivialries, and grudges going back to like 1297 A.D. Our main border problems are drugs coming up from the south and NHL teams coming down from the north.

I do not need to be a hacker, would you lighten up? Nothing personal.

GONZO, DON'T FORGET, TURKS FIGHTING KURDS FOR OVER 15 YEARS NOW. RUSSIANS DIDN'T TAKE CARE OF THEIR PROBLEM RIGHT AWAY, BUT THEY ARE TAKING CARE OF IT NOW. AND THEY WON'T STOP UNTILL THEY ARE DONE.