Russian Media Scrutinize Chechnya Dead Figures

MOSCOW, Jan 24, 2000 -- (Reuters) The number of Russian troops killed in breakaway Chechnya is at least 10 times greater than official figures suggest, NTV television said on Monday.

Official statistics usually say two or three soldiers have been killed per day, but figures are released sporadically and do not include all Russian troops.

NTV, in a report first broadcast on Sunday, said the numbers of corpses passing through the Rostov military hospital in southern Russia frequently reached 30 per day.

The hospital is the central processing point for all Defense Ministry servicemen killed in Chechnya, NTV said. This does not include the sizeable proportion of Russia's 100,000 troops in Chechnya commanded by the Interior Ministry.

Official statistics put the total number of Russian war dead in the four-month-old campaign against separatist rebels at more than 500. At least one independent estimate stands at 3,000.

NTV said it was not allowed inside the hospital but filmed a visitor who said he had been in the morgue and had seen 30 corpses. A truck piled high with planks of wood such as might be used to make coffins drove into the hospital compound.

CORPSES TRANSPORTED BY NIGHT TRAIN

The television crew also secretly filmed inside a warehouse at the railway station where workers said they had unloaded 15 corpses on Sunday and 30 on Saturday. War dead are often transported on night trains.

The latest issue of the weekly military newspaper Nezavisimoye Voyennoye Obozreniye said the "game of numbers" being played with statistics of injured and slain men was losing any relation to reality.

"Official statistics did not change even when the fighting became fiercer," the paper said. It said both Russian troops and Chechen rebels were wildly exaggerating their opponents' losses.

"If you count up the official numbers (of Chechen rebels) killed, around 10,000 of them have been wiped out. Their total numbers last autumn were estimated to be around 40,000... So why can't federal forces get into Grozny or the mountains?"

Moscow's forces are engaged in a fierce battle to seize the smoldering bombed-out remains of the capital Grozny and to flush rebels out of strongholds in the southern mountains.

The newspaper called on the defense and interior ministries to publish lists of slain servicemen in its pages. It said the numbers should be verified by the Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers which represents the families of Russia's mostly conscript army.

The soldiers' mothers have said their estimate of Russian war dead is running at least 3,000. Nezavisimoye said: "Unfortunately the number of dead is in all probability closer to this level (than the official level)."

NTV also filmed inside a military identification office in Rostov. Sitting next to a pile of red folders, each representing a killed soldier, Zinaida Sherbakova said she and her three colleagues each transcribed information from at least six red folders per day onto the military's computers.

"Normally it's six a day, but that's because there are only so many hours in the day," she said. "Sometimes I manage 15 or 18."

Chechens Concede Heavy Losses In Grozny

NAZRAN, Russia, Jan 24, 2000 -- (Agence France Presse) Chechen fighters conceded heavy losses in Grozny on Monday while claiming to have killed hundreds of Russians in furious street battles which have seen little progress by government troops.

A spokesman for Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov told AFP by telephone from Chechnya that at least 20 rebels had been killed and 10 injured in a 24-hour period.

Spokesman Said-Selim Abdulmuslimov's report is unusual as Chechens rarely admit to such high losses but claim to have slaughtered numerous opponents. Official Russian reports said that 120 Chechens had been killed.

Abdulmuslimov said the most brutal fighting now raged on the eastern front of the city. But the battles were outside Grozny proper, he said, and not in the city center, which Russians have claimed to control several times.

Snipers and Chechens armed with rocket launchers were battling the Russians between the Khankala suburb and the Michurin settlement to the city's east.

Abdulmuslimov said that 300 Russians soldiers had been killed in two days, a claim brushed off by Moscow as propaganda.

Russians were still in full control of the vital Zhukovsky bridge over the city's Sunzha River that links troops based to the northeast with the heart of the wrecked city where an estimated 700 to 3,000 fighters are based.

The Chechen spokesman further quoted Grozny Mayor Lechya Dudayev as saying that Russian forces were using chemical weapons -- the same claim leveled against the rebels by federal troops.

But Grozny again was not the only site of battle as the Russians pressed an offensive in the southern mountains, repeating claims that both Maskhadov and top field commander Shamil Basayev had been seriously wounded in battle.

More than 160 combat missions were flown Sunday, including sorties over regions at the foot of the mountains, which the Russians are also trying to take in a ground attack.

They have already captured of the village of Vedeno, Basayev's home base.

However the AVN defense news agency cited top defense sources as saying that some 60 Russians were wounded in the southern battles every day, pointing out that military science says that three soldiers are wounded for every one killed.

So far reports of the ground battles, which began on October 1, have been favorable to the government and helped acting President Vladimir Putin rocket to the top of public opinion polls.

Yet some of the smaller Russian television channels have begun to openly question the campaign's tactics and criticize military officials for curbing or even censoring their reports.

Putin, appearing on national television Sunday evening, vowed to continue the offensive until all of the rebels are destroyed and denied there were any specific timeframes for ending the offensive.

The war will end only when "we fully scatter and destroy the bandits," Putin said.

He added that most of the Russian troops would then be pulled out while some of the defense ministry equipment and soldiers remain in the republic to make sure that it never rebels again.

He stressed that the war had no links to politics and was not timed to end by the time Putin himself faces presidential elections on March 26.

"We will not sacrifice the lives of Russian soldiers in order to make the political calendar more convenient."

And for the first time Putin also hinted that he was not completely happy with the progress of federal troops.

U R N Where Putin and some of his generals have made mistakes which have hurt public opinon is when they claim stuff like "we will take Gronzy with in the month" and it does not happen. I think being honest and saying this is a tough fight, we will suffer losses. By not doing so and having deadlines come and go just to make new ones is counter productive. The US Army learned this in Vietnam when it claimed the VC were all most beaten and we were winning the war...then TET happened. Of course TET was a big military victory for the US but politically and in the battle for public opinion it was devistating.

slovak,

as per your question, why I(suppossedly) defend communism and enjoy the goodies of capitalism...well, first of all, I never-ever said that I enjoy communism, I acually enjoy socialism with elements of capitalism(or vica-versa, if you will)..and you started attacking me, giving me "credit" for the things I never said nor mentioned..are you being a little, angry kid again? No offence, but that is exactly why I called you a moron (still stands, by the way)..twisting other people's words isn't cool..but then again - neither are you, so what am I talking to you for, kiddo? Oh yea, cuz I like pissing you off (almost forgot, you know)..

Ultra Russian Nationalist,

otvet na tvoi vopros - ia ukrainskii grajzdanin, rabotaiuschii na napoloviny russkuiu companiu za granitzei..a ti gde v rossii jzivesh?

to Fenriz Culto,

as I was browsing thru the net I came across of this article..I am not taking any guesses or anything, but, does the following article have anything to do with your name? Here it goes:

"Darkthrone was formed back in 1986 by Gylve Nagell, Ted Skjellum, Ivar Enger and Dag Nilsen. In the beginning they called themselves "Black Death" and they played Death Metal with satanic lyrics. In 1988 they changed their band name to "Darkthrone" and after recording a couple of demos they released their first full-lenght album: "Soulside Journey" on Peaceville. After this release they left the Death Metal concept in advantage of the newly invention/discovery done by Euronymous; Northern Black Metal. They also started using aliases (Gylve Nagell became FENRIZ, Ted Skjellum became Nocturno CULTO and Ivar Enger became Zephyrous) and corpsepaint. Their bassist, Dag Nilsen, didn't like this new music/image and left the band. However he did session bass on Darkthrone's next release: "A Blaze In The Northern Sky". Darkthrone used several hours setting the sound to get it as harsh and ugly as possible, and since they knew what they where doing it ended up sounding great. It was this album witch realy satt the standard for the Northern Black Metal style. The following three albums was recorded in Fenriz' studio; Necrohell Studios, too get that fine sound. Darkthrone stayed on Peaceville for a total of four albums, then they went to Moonfog. This was done because they wanted to work with norwegians only. Zephyrous disappeared after the "Panzerfaust" album, but he has neither quit or been fired. Noone seems to know where he is, or what he's up to."

I used all the Caps for the names that apply(?) to you in that article..
here's the link I got it from:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/1747/darkthro.html

let me know, will ya?

POOR BEGGING COUNTRY russia CAN'T PAY HER DEBT.


BEGGER BOWL IS ON TEH STREET AGAIN.

Finance minister Kasyanov says war costs are high


Russia is struggling to pay its debts to foreign lenders.

The country must make $1.4bn of debt payments by April, but its spending on the war in Chechnya means it may not have the cash to spare.

"We have no sources of foreign financing and our domestic sources are limited," finance minister Mikhail Kasyanov said on Monday.

He added that the situation over the $1.4bn payments was "tense".

The cost of war

ING Barings estimates that Russia is spending $180m to $200m on the war each month.

"It is a substantial strain on the budget," said Philip Poole, director of emerging markets research at ING Barings in London.

"If they need to commit large numbers of troops over an extended period of time, it is not going to be cheap," he said.

When moscow is for sell, I wll buy it>

DRAKE... how noble it was for you to come to the defence of IGOR yesterday by attacking me. I am quite sure he is most pleased with your actions. So pleased in fact that this big dummy, ugly, stupid goony bird lover of yours will have a very nice LITTLE surprise for you tonight. If you prefer to not get it where the sun dosen't shine than I'm sure you'll open wide and say AHHHHH.. You fargon SISSY... mind your own business

abd:
"When moscow is for sell, I wll buy it>"

Actually you can't, for this city is the most expensive capital in the world..even more expensive than ex-#1 - Tokyo..

just for your info

slovatskoe vremya shest' chasov shesdes'at shest' minut..

GOOD AFTERNOON BOY'S

say hi to the girls too..be a gentelman fo' christ'sake :)))

"""By igor ( - 206.47.244.62) on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 09:42 am:
Turk with attitudes like this it will not be long till Turkey gets it .Do you think Russia will just sit by and let this happen? http://www.russiatoday.com/press.php3?id=127823 """

Igor,
Use your brain, and don't believe "Russian?" tabloids. I am following Turkish press closely, and never heard this sort of BS. Turkey has enough problems at the moment, without inviting more. They are, in terms of realism, well ahead of Russians, ie. the days of empires are over, mutual territorial respect, and mostly lets trade and do business. They will do business with everyone, and Russia is one of the largest partners. When Russia developes a similar attitude, most of the problems in the area will disappear, don't you agree?

GOOD AFTERNOON BOY'S....What has this become a msg board for faggots????