"""By insha allah ( - 63.192.212.2) on Tuesday, January 25, 2000 - 02:59 am:
turk you are either naive or dumb"""

I hope not.

Did you know that Finland went through an independence strugle against Russia similar to Chechens?

"""In the end of the 19th century, Tsar Nicholas II was influenced by the Pan-Slavists that propagated for the powerful and culturally unified Russia. For them Western influences were the root of all evil and autonomous parts of the Russia were dangerously full of them. These had to be 'conquered again' culturally.

In the two periods of russification, 1899 - 1905 and 1908 - 17, special rights of Finland were abolished. Yet attempts to russify Finland failed due to internal problems of Russia."""

"""When the Russian Empire collapsed and Lenin seized power Finnish parliament declared Finland an independent state (December 6, 1917). Finland
turned to Western countries for recognition but they were reluctant to recognise Finland before the Soviet-Russia."""


A lot of similarity to Chechnya's history, don't you think?

Why do you think that all those Eastern European countries couldn't get away from Russia fast enough? Because Russia "as it is" is not a civilised country. It is an evil empire. Only brings pain & suffering to population, including Russians.

Chechens wants to have their freedom in their own country. Doesn't matter if they are Muslim or not, they are waging an indepence war against aggression, therefore they deserve to be supported.

Unconventional look from a russian analyst what is going on in chechnya and sitister Putin's intentions(in Cyrillic Windows font):

Íûíåøíþþ ìÿñîðóáêó â ×å÷íå ãîòîâèëè ñ ìàðòà ïðîøëîãî ãîäà.
23 ÿíâàðÿ 2000 ãîäà, 17:29

 îêòÿáðå êàçàëîñü, ÷òî âòîðæåíèå ðîññèéñêèõ âîéñê â ×å÷íþ - íåóäà÷íàÿ âîåííî-ïîëèòè÷åñêàÿ èìïðîâèçàöèÿ. Òåïåðü âûÿñíÿåòñÿ, ÷òî íûíåøíþþ ìÿñîðóáêó ãîòîâèëè ñ ìàðòà ïðîøëîãî ãîäà.
Âïðî÷åì, èñõîäíûé ïëàí ïðåäóñìàòðèâàë îêêóïàöèþ òîëüêî ñåâåðíîé ×å÷åíè. Çîíó áåçîïàñíîñòè ïëàíèðîâàëè ðàçâåðíóòü ïî Òåðåêó èëè ÷óòü þæíåå, ïî Òåðñêîìó è Ñóíæåíñêîìó õðåáòàì, îõâàòûâàÿ Ãðîçíûé øèðîêîé äóãîé ñ âîçìîæíûì âêëþ÷åíèåì ðàéîíà Ãóäåðìåñà, ãäå ïðîõîäÿò îñíîâíûå íåôòåïðîâîäû è æåëåçíàÿ äîðîãà íà Ìàõà÷êàëó.  ïðèíöèïå, ÷òîáû íàäåæíî îòãîðîäèòü ñåâåð ×å÷íè ñèë áûëî äîñòàòî÷íî.
Ïðåäïîëàãàëîñü, ÷òî ïîä çàùèòîé ðóññêèõ øòûêîâ âîçíèêíåò íîâàÿ, àëüòåðíàòèâíàÿ ×å÷íÿ, ãäå ðàáîòàþò øêîëû, âûïëà÷èâàþòñÿ ïåíñèè, öàðèò çàêîí è ïîðÿäîê. Ïðèâëåêàòåëüíîñòü ìèðíîé æèçíè ñòàëà áû î÷åâèäíà, áîåâèêè ëèøèëèñü áû ïîääåðæêè çíà÷èòåëüíîé ÷àñòè íàñåëåíèÿ è ê ëåòó âîçíèêëè áû ïðåäïîñûëêè äëÿ óñïåøíîé îïåðàöèè ïðîòèâ Ãðîçíîãî è ãîðíûõ ðàéîíîâ.
Îäíàêî ïðåìüåð Ïóòèí îòáðîñèë ýòîò äîñòàòî÷íî ðàçóìíûé ïëàí è íà÷àëàñü êðîâàâàÿ èìïðîâèçàöèÿ çèìíåãî ïîõîäà íà Ãðîçíûé è â ãîðû. ×å÷åíñêóþ ïðîáëåìó ïîïûòàëèñü ðåøèòü ñðàçó, ñ íàñêîêà. Ñêîðî âûÿñíèëîñü, ÷òî íûíåøíèì âîîðóæåííûì ñèëàì ïîäîáíàÿ çàäà÷à íå ïî ïëå÷ó.
Çà ïîñëåäíèå äåñÿòü ëåò áûâøàÿ ñîâåòñêèå âîîðóæåííûå ñèëû ïî÷òè ïîëíîñòüþ óòðàòèëè áîåñïîñîáíîñòü è ïðèâû÷êó ê äèñöèïëèíå. Ðîòíûå è âçâîäíûå êîìàíäèðû â ìàññå ñâîåé â ïðèíöèïå íåñïîñîáíû êîìàíäîâàòü, îñîáåííî â áîþ. Ñîëäàòû, îôèöåðû è ãåíåðàëû ñêëîííû ê ìàðîäåðñòâó è ê âûìîãàòåëüñòâó, âîðóþò âñå, ÷òî ïëîõî ëåæèò. (Åñòåñòâåííîå, êñòàòè, ïîñëåäñòâèå ìíîãîëåòíèõ çàäåðæåê ñ çàðïëàòîé.)
Íå óñïåë íà÷àòüñÿ çèìíèé ïîõîä íà Ãðîçíûé, êàê âñå íåäîñòàòêè âûÿâèëèñü è íà÷àëñÿ ðàñïàä. Ñåãîäíÿ âñå áîëüøå ñâèäåòåëüñòâ òîãî, ÷òî ïðîäàæíûå ðîññèéñêèå âîåííûå ñíàáæàþò áîåâèêîâ îðóæèåì, áîåïðèïàñàìè è ãîðþ÷èì. Âîéñêà â ×å÷íå ãîòîâû íåäåëÿìè æäàòü, ÷òî àðòèëëåðèÿ è àâèàöèÿ âûáüþò ïðîòèâíèêà ñ ïîçèöèé, íî ñàìè îòêàçûâàþòñÿ èäòè âïåðåä, êîãäà áîìáû ñòàíîâÿòñÿ áåñïîëåçíû è òîëüêî ðåøèòåëüíûå äåéñòâèÿ ïåõîòû ìîãóò ïðèâåñòè ê óñïåõó.
Äåëà òàê ïëîõè, ÷òî 18-ãî ÿíâàðÿ â Ãðîçíîì ãåíåðàë Ìàëîôååâ ïûòàëñÿ ëè÷íûì ïðèìåðîì "àêòèâèçèðîâàòü", ïî ñëîâàì ìèíèñòðà îáîðîíû, "äåéñòâèÿ âîéñê", êîòîðûå îòêàçûâàëèñü èäòè âïåðåä. Íî "âîéñêà" íå òîëüêî íå ïîñëåäîâàëè ïðèìåðó, à íàïðîòèâ - áåæàëè, áðîñèâ áîåâîãî ãåíåðàëà íà ìèëîñòü áîåâèêàì.
Òàêîãî ïîçîðà åùå íå áûëî çà òûñÿ÷ó ñ ëèøíèì ëåò èñòîðèè ðîññèéñêîé àðìèè è ãîñóäàðñòâà. Âïðî÷åì, âñÿ íûíåøíÿÿ êàìïàíèÿ - ñïëîøíîé ïîçîð. Èç-çà ñîáñòâåííîé ñëàáîñòè Ðîññèÿ íå â ñîñòîÿíèè âîåâàòü ïîðÿäî÷íî, â ñîîòâåòñòâèè ñ çàêîíàìè è îáû÷àÿìè âåäåíèÿ âîéíû.  ðåçóëüòàòå, âîåííûå ïðåñòóïëåíèÿ è çâåðñòâà ïðîèñõîäÿò ïîñòîÿííî, êàê áû âûíóæäåííî.
Óæå ìíîãî äíåé âîéñêà íåóäà÷íî øòóðìóþò Ãðîçíûé. ×å÷åíöû çàùèùàþòñÿ òàêòè÷åñêè ãðàìîòíî, èõ ïåõîòà äåéñòâóåò ðåøèòåëüíî, ïðîÿâëÿÿ èíèöèàòèâó è äåðçîñòü â êîíòðàòàêàõ íåñìîòðÿ íà òÿæåëûå ïîòåðè, íåñìîòðÿ íà òî, ÷òî ó ÷å÷åíöåâ íåò íè àâèàöèè, íè àðòèëëåðèè. ×òîáû îáåñïå÷èòü õîòü êàêîå-òî ïðîäâèæåíèå ðîññèéñêèå ãåíåðàëû ñòàëè ïðèìåíÿòü îðóæèå, çàïðåùåííîå ìåæäóíàðîäíûìè êîíâåíöèÿìè. Ïî ìíîãî÷èñëåííûì ñâèäåòåëüñòâàì âîåííûõ-î÷åâèäöåâ â ãîðîäå èñïîëüçóåòñÿ îðóæèå ìàññîâîãî ïîðàæåíèÿ, êîòîðîå âûæèãàåò ëþäåé â äîìàõ è ïîäâàëàõ - òÿæåëûå ðåàêòèâíûå îãíåìåòû ÒÎÑ-1 (ñèñòåìà "Áóðàòèíî").  ïîäâàëàõ Ãðîçíîãî ïî ðàçíûì îöåíêàì îò 20 äî 40 òûñ ìèðíûõ ðîññèéñêèõ ãðàæäàí. Áàáóøåê è ñòàðèêîâ, æåíùèí è äåòåé, ÷å÷åíöåâ è ðóññêèõ æãóò æèâüåì, ÷òîáû âçÿòü Ãðîçíûé ëþáîé öåíîé.
Ïîñëåäíèé ðàç â Åâðîïå òàêîå âûòâîðÿëè òîëüêî íàöèñòû. È òî÷íî òàê, êàê ýòî áûëî â ôàøèñòñêîé Ãåðìàíèè, â ñåãîäíÿøíåé Ðîññèè ïîäàâëÿþùåå áîëüøèíñòâî ãðàæäàí ïîääåðæèâàåò ìàññîâûå óáèéñòâà. Âïðî÷åì, ïîääåðæêà ýòà ñâîåîáðàçíà: â ×å÷íå ãèáíóò øêîëüíèêè-ïðèçûâíèêè, à äåñÿòêè ìèëëèîíîâ çäîðîâûõ ðîññèéñêèõ ìóæèêîâ ñèäÿò äîìà, ïüþò âîäêó, ïîääåðæèâàþò Ïóòèíà è òðåáóþò - "Áîëüøå æåñòîêîñòè â ×å÷íå! Áîëüøå êðîâè!" Ïóòèí, êîíå÷íî, ðàä ïåðåä âûáîðàìè óãîäèòü ñâîèì ïîêëîííèêàì. Òàêîé ÷åëîâåê. Åñëè îáåùàë, òî ñäåëàåò.


http://echo.msk.ru/headings/felgengauer/

"""By igor ( - 206.47.244.62) on Tuesday, January 25, 2000 - 03:09 am:
Turk you keep harping on # of dead ,wrong figures reported for Russian dead. To which I gave reply! """

I was not talking about that. My point was your eagerness to be blindfolded of the facts despite growing up in a Western country.

Russians are reported to kill general Malofeev to prevent Chechens from taking the wounded general:

(Windows Cyrillic font):

Liberty Live
Îáñòîÿòåëüñòâà ãèáåëè ãåíåðàëà Ìàëîôååâà
Îëåã Êóñîâ, ×å÷íÿ, Õàíêàëà:

Âî Âëàäèêàâêàçå, â ãàðíèçîííîì Äîìå îôèöåðîâ ñåãîäíÿ è çàâòðà ñ Ìèõàèëîì Ìàëîôååâûì áóäóò ïðîùàòüñÿ âîåííîñëóæàùèå 58-é ðîññèéñêîé àðìèè.  õîäå áîåâûõ äåéñòâèé â ×å÷íå Ìèõàèë Ìàëîôååâ áûë íà÷àëüíèêîì áîåâîãî îòäåëà 58-é àðìèè, ïðèáûâ ñþäà èç Ëåíèíãðàäñêîãî âîåííîãî îêðóãà. Àòàêà íà ïîçèöèè ÷å÷åíñêîãî îòðÿäà â Çàâîäñêîì ðàéîíå Ãðîçíîãî, êîòîðàÿ äëÿ ãåíåðàëà çàêîí÷èëàñü òðàãè÷åñêè, áûëà äëÿ íåãî îäíîé èç ïåðâûõ íà íûíåøíåé ÷å÷åíñêîé âîéíå. Ðîññèéñêèå âîåííûå îôèöèàëüíî çàÿâèëè î òîì, ÷òî ãåíåðàë Ìàëîôååâ ïîãèá, óâëåêàÿ â àòàêó íåáîëüøóþ ãðóïïó ëþäåé. Ñîãëàñíî ýòîé âåðñèè, ìîòîñòðåëêàì íå óäàëîñü çàáðàòü òåëî óáèòîãî ãåíåðàëà, ïîñëå òîãî, êàê ïî ýòîé ãðóïïå âîåííûõ ñ ôëàíãîâ óäàðèëè ÷å÷åíñêèå áîéöû. Ñàìà ãðóïïà îòîøëà íàçàä. ßêîáû, ïîìåøàëà êàêàÿ-òî êàìåííàÿ ïðåãðàäà. Çàòåì ïî ÷å÷åíöàì íà÷àëà áèòü àðòèëëåðèÿ. Ïðèìåðíî òàêîé êàíâû ñòàðàþòñÿ ïðèäåðæèâàòüñÿ ðîññèéñêèå ãåíåðàëû, ðàññêàçûâàÿ î ãèáåëè ñâîåãî êîëëåãè. Ðîññèéñêèå îôèöåðû, ÷üè ïîäðàçäåëåíèÿ ðàñïîëîæåíû íà âîñòî÷íîé îêðàèíå Ãðîçíîãî, â öåëîì ãîâîðèëè òî æå ñàìîå, òîëüêî ñ îäíèì ñóùåñòâåííûì äîïîëíåíèåì: ãåíåðàë-ìàéîð Ìèõàèë Ìàëîôååâ, ñîãëàñíî ðàññêàçàì íåêîòîðûõ ôåäåðàëüíûõ îôèöåðîâ, îñòàëñÿ ëåæàòü â êàìåííûõ ðàçâàëèíàõ ðàíåíûì, à íå óáèòûì. Ñîãëàñíî ýòîé âåðñèè, êîòîðàÿ, ïîâòîðÿþ, íå ïîäòâåðæäàåòñÿ ñîòðóäíèêàìè îôèöèàëüíûõ ïðåññ-ñëóæá ãðóïïèðîâêè, ðîññèéñêàÿ àðòèëëåðèÿ íàíîñèëà óäàðû ïî ðàçâàëèíàì, â êîòîðûõ ëåæàë ðàíåíûé ãåíåðàë. Âïîëíå ïîíÿòíî, ÷òî ïîä øêâàëüíûì îãíåì íèêòî íå ñìîã ïðîáðàòüñÿ ê ìåñòó åãî ðàíåíèÿ.

http://www.svoboda.org/archive/crisis/caucasus/0100/ll.012400-2.shtml

The followers of the false religion of Islam claim that they honor and love Moses. But, as anyone can read in the Old Testament, of which the first five books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy were written by Moses, God ordained the tribe of Levi as his consecrated ministers, and to the sons of Moses and his brother Aaron who were of the tribe of Levi, was given the priesthood. This was known as the Aharonic priesthood, or Levitical priesthood.

The Levitical priesthood was rendered obsolete by Jesus Christ, the Only-Begotten Son of God, who instituted the Catholic priesthood, with Himself as the High Priest.

If Muslims really loved and honored Moses, then they would want to follow the Levitical priesthood. But Moses was looking forward with hope for the Messiah, Jesus Christ, Who did away with the Levitical priesthood and instituted the Catholic priesthood. Jesus Christ said "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life." (St. John 14:6)

Muslims claim to honor Jesus as a prophet. But Jesus said "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life." Jesus also said "Before Abraham came to be, I AM (Hebrew - YAHWEY)." (St. John 8:58)
By saying the holy name of God, which He spoke to Moses on Mt. Sinai (Exodus 3:14), Jesus was proclaiming Himself to be God, and because the Jews did not believe in Him, they picked up stones to throw at Him.

So if the Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, then they must regard Him as a man of Truth. And if He is a man of Truth, then everything He says is the Truth, and since He revealed that He is God, the Muslims must believe that Jesus Christ is God. Otherwise, the Muslims are being completely disingenuous when they claim to honor Moses and Jesus.

This proves that Islam is a false and counterfeit religion which is not from God, and therefore also, the main purveyor of Islam, the accursed Mohammed was a liar and is burning in the fires of hell with Satan.

By insha allah ( - 63.192.212.2) on Tuesday, January 25, 2000 - 03:04 am:

>and unless the person who said something was
>G-D, you can't quote them for being wrong. TO
>ERR IS HUMAN>

G-D is the way orthodox Jews and Lubavitchers write the word "God". This is because in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant (Abrogated by the infidelity of the Jews and terminated by God), the Levitical high priest was the only person among all the Israelites permitted to pronounce the Holy Name of God - YaHWeY. Furthermore, the chief priest could only pronounce the Name once a year in and in the Holy of Holies in the Sanctuary in the Tent, and later in the Temple of Jerusalem.

"""By igor ( - 206.47.244.62) on Tuesday, January 25, 2000 - 03:13 am:
Turk you are sounding like you got educated over here on this board,congratulations now back up some of your stuff wit hreliable facts.The more you post ,the more you sound like an upgraded version of ABFOOLAH. """

O really! I am, atleast, not defending undefendable with full knowledge that Russia is committing a genocide in Chechnya.

If it was for you, you wouldn't let Finland, Poland, Hungary, Chech Republic, Slovakia, ... be free, right?

Reality is Russia lost the cold war, Russian economy and army collapsed, and could not sustain to keep these countries under invasion. The same will happen in Chechya. Despite what Putin is saying, Russia can not afford another cold war, it desperately needs West, so has to toe the line at some point. Maybe after the election?

Igor,
For you (not that you care about lies).

http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22912-2000Jan24.html

"Acting President Vladimir Putin's campaign to wipe out all Chechen resistance to Moscow's authority is no longer a triumphal parade. Russian casualties have begun to mount.

This is not good for a political campaign whose candidate's sudden popularity depends solely on a cost-free victory over the despised Chechens. The election was moved closer in a Yeltsin-Putin deal so it could be conducted during the war fever, but body bags dampen jingoistic spirits."

http://www.times.com/library/opinion/safire/011700safi.html

Turk, shut the •••• up, you know nothing of whats going on or where reality leaves insanity. I think you are an escaped siko (spelling?) maniac mumbling all this nonsense on how Russia is commiting Genocide. I used to understand and feel for some of the arguments you presented, now i am not sure its the same Turk, maybe you are changed or maybe you are an imposter.

URN:
"sicko" would be spelled "sicko"...
"*" would be spelled "*"
HOO-HAH!
===
...and whatever genius said here that "women are inferior to men" some hours ago oughta be glad kissie didnt kick your silly ass (spelled "ass", or for our readers in the UK, "arse").
===

sinister face... or another upset in chechnya, mr. putin?

http://www.lenta.ru/vybory/2000/01/25/ponomarev/

To balalaika
And what is about your obsession with "balalaika"?
Did Japanese doctor remove it from your a-s-s or it still hurts? Or you rather have a "nagaika"?
Do you like to polish Russian jackboots with your tongue again or may be German leather tests better.
Sorry, I forgot that you are busy cleaning Japanese underwear now…

Cossack

By Antonio ( - 209.239.212.180) on Tuesday, January 25, 2000 - 03:54 am:

God sacrificed his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their own sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but is an obcene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect out imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

/2 ULTRARUSSIAN NATIONALIST... You shut the farc up go help your mother. She called and said that if you see my son tell him to come over and braid her armpit hairs. Guess she tripped over them and fell, said she now has lips like Yassar Arafat.