By Dimitri ( - 63.85.63.20) on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 01:17 pm:
By THX1138 ( - 207.155.95.16) on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 09:04 pm:
Could you please explain what is this "SECOND SECRET OF FATIMA" and the Madonna of Fatima? And what does this have to do with Orthodoxism and Catholicism and Russia or Russians?

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Absolutely. Off the top of my head and to make a long story short, in 1917(?), in a Portuguese village of Fatima, three children supposedly witnessed a presence of Holy Mary (Madonna). The interesting thing that only one child (Lucia) was able to hear and see the Holy Mother, the other two only had a limited access: they were only able to see her, or feel her presence or something. Anyhoo..Madonna supposedly told them three secrets: the first one I forgot (sorry), but the second one was concerning Mother Russia - she was telling Lucia that there is a great country a need of great help, the country that will witness the Dark Ages, the country that will need a help of Holy Church. But Lucia, being just a little kid (10y/o), didn't even understand that HM was referring to a country, in fact Lucia thought that HM was telling her about some woman by the name of Russia (kids, heh). And the third secret Madonna asked not to disclose for another 40(?) years or so. So for all these years the Holy Catholic Church was making almost invisible attempts to convert the Russians from Orthodox (Russia's official religion, starting from the 9th century). Now, that USSR has collapsed, the attempts are becoming more and more frequent.
AS for the third secret, The Church has kept it a secret until this May 20 (the day Madonna appeared before the kids, BTW), of 2000, when John Paul II, made his third trip to Fatima and before the people of the village read the third vision of Madonna (BTW, 93 year-old Mother Lucia was present). I don't remember the details, but it was something like this: someone in white clothes (a Pope?) walking thru the crowd of wounded and bleeding people (struggling Catholics? struggling Russians?) with the cross in his hands...

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I have done a little homework and found out that the Vatican signed a Concordat with the Soviet Union which in effect stated the Church's agreement not to condemn Communism and to renounce all efforts to convert Russia to Catholicism.

I have also discovered that the second secret of Fatima is that the Pope together with all the Catholic bishops in the world within the same hour must perform a public act of consecrating Russia to the Virgin Mary and this, the children of Fatima say, will prompt the Almighty to convert the Russians to Catholicism and then He will heal the land and the people of all their toxic waste, pollution, crime, dilapidated housing etc.

According to the sources I checked, the consecration prescribed by the Virgin Mary to the children of Fatima has not yet been performed. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that either the Catholic authorities believe in the Fatima secrets and are keeping their promises according to the Concordat that they will not try to convert Russia, or they do not believe in the Fatima secrets and promises and therefore have not consecrated Russia because they do not believe it will effect the conversion of Russia to Catholicism. In that case, however, I cannot understand why they wouldn't then try it anyway to see what would happen, unless they were afraid of the secret and promises being exposed as fake and themselves as believers in superstitions.

If however, the Fatima secrets are genuine and the promises real and from God as they say, and the Catholic Church authorities believe this to be true, then there must be some reason why they have not acted on the instructions of the secrets.
It would seem that this is open to speculation. Most fascinating.

"""Milo is not more intelligent because he saved his army. I was just scared."""

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I am assuming that you meant to say "he was just scared". Fred, do you realize that you're saying that he showed exellent war skills just because he was scared? C'mon now, be reasonable. Let me ask you a rhetorical question: your own army is being bombed, so WHAT DO YOU DO? You save it, Fred. Because you would be affraid TO LOSE IT. Affraid and not scared, "scared" iss a very naive term to use in regards to this situation. So what does he do? He saves his army. That is called an exellent maneuvre, not "scared", by all the means of any warfare. (BTW, and 'idiot' doesn't make it to a President's chair nowadays, criminal/terran/adulterer maybe, but NEVER an idiot).

I feel your srugglings, Fred, I think my friend Kim Arx was going thru the same dillema. Remember what I told you, Fred, seeing is believing.

by Fred:
"""For you, slavians, the truth is clear. """

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Not nesesserely. From what I understand, Delenn is not a slav. She's just got the info.

Dima,
"Let me ask you a rhetorical question: your own army is being bombed, so WHAT DO YOU DO? You save it"

I will answer by this question: your own country is being bombed, so WHAT DO YOU DO? You save it.

That's what Milo didn't do and why he is an idiot.
"Exelent war skill" or "exellent manoeuvre".
Hmmm, you're quickely satisfied.

You and Delenn and Igor, you are exactely like qoqaz.com: interpreting a total defeat in victory. (friendly saying.)

Dima the best dish is the Hughs Platinum but it costs more about$400 0r $500 US however it is AC3 surround sound if you have equipment for it.The one for $106 is the entry level RCA.The Hughs has a reset gizmo where when they kill the card you reset and it works again.I would suggest dual LNB in case you want to get a second receiver.The cards are illegal in States but legal here so do not tell anyone at the store about them if you are in States.We buy the dishes in Buffalo.

Fred if can see the video "THE VALLEY" it was filmed in 1998 and shown on Newsworld International you would see what the KLA was doing before the crackdown.Maybe e-mail them at nwi.com and find out how you can see it.

I don't think Milo ever really grasped the situation. I doubt he ever really thought he would be bombed because of Kosovo. I doubt he took the warnings seriously. Then once the bombings started he didn't think NATO had the resolve to see it through. At the end of the day Milo called for a greater serbia and once again it just got smaller.

Fred I will try to find correct e-mail for them if you do let me know.

Chorny, so whats in the video?

"""You and Delenn and Igor, you are exactely like qoqaz.com: interpreting a total defeat in victory"""

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I wouldn't jump to such extremes, at least in my case 😉
I don't believe Yugo won at all. But you were using such word, "COUNTINUOUS DEFEAT", "IDIOT", "SCARED"..woof, Fred, one can think that you're the one who's employed by QOQAZ.NET, you know..
To ME, it is not the question who's more right and more wrong, the point that I keep on trying to make in our debate is that under those surcumstances NATO should have NEVER bombed the country.

"""I will answer by this question: your own country is being bombed, so WHAT DO YOU DO? You save it. """

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Woah! To relocate not only the army but the whole civilian population. Mon amie, his name is Slobodan Milocevic, not Moses Milocevic!

Ohh, I'm just messing witcha 😉
You probalby suggest that Milo should have given up after a few bridges were destroyed and few dozen civilian lives were taken..did I guess it?
Fred, you should know better than that - if you invade the slavs, do not expect them to give up. That's is exactly why, clever NATO folks never sent their troops in but instead continued the civilian-deadly air raids.

One question that does not really have an answer since its a what if. What if NATO didm't bomb would the serb forces have ethnically clensed to the same results of so many refugees (at a slower rate) as during the bombing. (not counting the refugees that left before the bombing.

"""I don't think Milo ever really grasped the situation"""

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And do you think NATO did, being spitted on and told to leave by the very same Albanians. How sad and ironic..

Milo don't have to grasp it from that perspective - NATO's air-invasion was unlawful, therefore unpredictable.

Gonzo it shows Serbs who built roads between villages and lived with Albanians for years being attacked by KLA.Later on the Serb guy talks about how his son was kidnapped by them.At night they get attacked by Albanians.I would point out that not only were Serbs victimized but Albanians also who did not go along with KLA ideas for independence.The film was filmed by independent film-makers,I think Canadians.Right now as we speak the KLA is also killing Albanians who do not conform to their ideas.Not all Albanians are nasty.

"""What if NATO didm't bomb would the serb forces have ethnically clensed to the same results of so many refugees (at a slower rate) as during the bombing. (not counting the refugees that left before the bombing. """

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That's a plain silly question, considering your sources and knowledge of the history of the region. Serbs, being a minority in Kosovo, were "ethnically cleansed" in a smaller quanities, for almost a decade via KLA.