Antonio I am assuming you are Armenian,are you Catholic or Orthodox since I have never met any Catholic Armenians?Just wondering.

TURK once again I will point out to you that the bandits in Chechnya are for the most part stinking Arab mercenaries.They have no business in Chechnya and as far as Basayev he is a criminal.

and on _another_ hand...

this 'baron' sounds strangely like that gross pig
allamFAKE.

whoever...

DEAR KNIGHT L'MENEXE..
POINTING TO YOU THE FACT UNDENIABLE I'M NOT BETTERTHANYOU..NEITHER I'M ALLAM_THE FAKE..LOL
KAPEESH..
OR I'LL CALL ON..QUEEN MAB

DEATH AND DESOLATION..
RUINS AND WASTELANDS..
TURKS AND LANDFILLS..
TOTAL FUN..

..OR TOTAL SADNESS.. ..

>>>>By IGOR ( - 149.99.72.44) on Sunday, July 2, 2000 - 01:57 pm:

TURK once again I will point out to you that the bandits in Chechnya are for the most part stinking Arab mercenaries.They have no business in Chechnya and as far as Basayev he is a criminal. >>>>

Igor,
Remember that Nelson Mandela was a criminal who spent most of his life behind bars, so does Xanana Gusmao of East Timor.

During independence war Kemal Ataturk of Turkey was declared a criminal and there was an arrest warrant for him. Lenin was a declared criminal, he had to leave Russia to avoid jail.

There are hundreds of examples of freedom fighters and revolutionaries who were treated like criminals at some stage of their lives by the ruling classes, or invaders.

Lets wait another 10 years and see how history will judge Basayev.

Turk: What about the part of the Arabs you omitted comment on that?Maybe you would like to discuss the 40,000 Kurds that your country rapes and tortures and murders in cold bold.

Kosovo is a morass, not a victory


Kosovo is out of the daily news, but the war isn't over. If it were, U.S. troops could come home.

President Clinton considers the U.S.-led bombing and NATO occupation both a military and a political victory, but many questions remain. To find answers, we must look to sources other than the White House.

ISN'T KOSOVO PEACEFUL now? No. Murders and assassinations continue. The lull in the military fighting, concludes John C. Hulsman of the Heritage Foundation, ``will last only as long as peacekeepers remain ... The region remains the seething cauldron it was before the intervention in Kosovo began.''

What's the problem? ``Neither the ethnic Albanians nor the Serbs have ever shown any inclination to realize the Clinton administration's vision of a society shaped by the values of democracy, diversity and tolerance,'' report Christopher Layne of the Cato Institute and Benjamin Schwarz of Atlantic Monthly in a joint essay.

A recent example of the trouble was the assassination on June 15 of ethnic Albanian politician Halil Dreshaj in his Kosovo home. His wife said the gunmen wore uniforms of the Kosovo Liberation Army.

Why would the Albanian KLA shoot a fellow Albanian? Because he was a moderate who favored peace. Didn't NATO order the KLA to disband last year? Yes, but it appears the KLA had other plans.

What does the KLA want? ``In a disturbing replay of the strategy it used from early 1998 until the NATO bombing campaign commenced, the KLA is attacking Serbian policemen and civilians - and ethnic Albanians loyal to Belgrade - in the hope of provoking Yugoslav authorities into a response that will incite the United States and NATO to resume the war with Yugoslavia,'' say Layne and Schwarz.

Who runs the KLA? ``The KLA leadership is largely made up of disparate and unsavory elements,'' say Layne and Schwarz. ``Radical Islamic fundamentalists, communists, drug traffickers, criminals, and ideological heirs of the ethnic Albanians who fought for the Nazis in World War II.''

They explain why the KLA can't be forced to behave: ``Washington has hesitated to crack down on the KLA, because U.S. leaders know that the KLA could retaliate against the NATO troops deployed in Kosovo.''

Is it fair to call the military intervention a failure. Yes. ``Despite the best of intentions,'' concludes Hulsman, ``this military action in Kosovo has failed to avert humanitarian catastrophe, promote sectarian harmony, clarify Kosovo's status, advance military readiness, or promote larger U.S. security interests.''

The Los Angles Times correctly reports: ``Even the most basic issue of what Kosovo should be remains too volatile to deal with in the short term. Serbs want Kosovo to be as U.N. resolutions describe it - an autonomous region within Yugoslavia. Most Kosovar Albanians want it to be independent.''

After fighting on the side of the Albanians and winning, why doesn't NATO give the KLA what it wants, an independent Kosovo? To do that would spark a new Balkan war, experts agree.

And that's why NATO dare not retreat: ``If NATO simply decided to cut its losses and leave the province,'' say Layne and Schwarz, ``Serbia and the KLA would be back at each other's throats.''

What's wrong with staying? ``The Balkans operations have tied down 10,000 U.S. troops who will not be available for other contingencies should they develop,'' Hulsman reminds us.

The Pentagon has been drawing down other accounts to pay for keeping its troops in Kosovo, the Associated Press reported Thursday. ``It will have to start curtailing activities early next month unless it receives $1.5 billion ... for Kosovo.''

The money is certain to be allocated because ``Republicans do not want such cutbacks blamed on them, particularly in an election year,'' the AP observes.

WHO ARE THE HEROES of this situation? Clearly the NATO troops. Brig. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the former head of U.S. troops whose tour of duty ended this month, said each member of his command has been ``willing to sacrifice his life to bring peace and stability to Kosovo.''

Still, the question we asked about Kosovo 14 months ago remains unanswered: In distant, localized conflicts, particularly those that don't directly threaten U.S. interests and in which no satisfactory settlement seems possible, what is the extent of our obligation to risk American lives?

There is no doubt Clinton and Vice President Al Gore had the best of intentions in leading the assault on Yugoslavia that ended in the apparently endless Kosovo occupation. But as Layne and Schwarz argue, ``In the real world, policy makers are judged by the consequences of their actions, not by their intentions.''
http://tampatrib.com/News/MGINTUG20AC.html

Freedom of press, freedom to lie?
I was still perplexed even as I stood in front of the remains of the Serbian Broadcasting Corporation (RTS) building, damaged by NATO missiles - in downtown Belgrade.

One year after the bombing, I still find it hard to accept the explanation by NATO spokesman Jamy Shea used to justify the bombing - this Serbia's "propaganda machine" had been prolonging the war. Another more "persuasive" reason was that this TV station had refused to broadcast a few hours of CNN and BBC programmes as requested by NATO.

Milorad Komrakov, editor-in-chief of the TV News Department of RTS, was furious when he recalled the tragedy of 16 colleagues killed at their work posts.

"You can quarrel or differ; you can label, but you can never condone killing fellow journalists you do not agree with," Komrakov said, "Western powers, who go around waving with the greatest icons of journalist tradition, crossed the line that has for decades been considered as an implicit rule of the profession."

One week after RTS was damaged, the building of Novi Sad TV was bombed by NATO "smart" missiles. Ironically, that event happened on May 3, 1999, when the World Day of the Freedom of the Press was supposed to be observed.

NATO set the worst precedence in the history of journalism by silencing different voices with their most advanced weapons. The 79-day bombing plunged Yugoslavia into one of the worst environmental and human tragedies in modern civilization. When 60 journalists from 35 countries gathered in Belgrade for a seminar earlier this month, they turned their attention to an invisible war - a media war - against this country, which had been going on much earlier than the military aggression.

This media war, masterminded by some major Western media and international political lobbies, vindicated the NATO aggression against a sovereign country in the name of ending "humanitarian crisis" in Kosovo.

Most ordinary people did not know where Kosovo was before the bombing. Their political sympathies and judgments were affected by the first impression given by media reports.

In just a few months, audiences were told a story of "humanitarian tragedy" caused by the Yugoslav Government's "ethnic cleansing" against ethnic Albanians.

With biased reports and circulation of unconfirmed facts, Western media successfully projected a "bad guy" image of the Yugoslav Government and its leaders.

Two months before the bombing, the US State Department showed media a satellite photo of a mass grave in Kosovo, where 7,000 Albanians were buried. It was a lead story for all major US newspapers. When dozens of US journalists, including Mike Wallace, went to investigate the case, they found nothing. But no newspapers or TV stations stood up to say "sorry, we were wrong."

The Yugoslav Government's crackdown on the separatist Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) was often used as the evidence to support the "ethnic cleansing" accusation.

In 1998, the US Government listed KLA as an international terrorist organization. But in less than a year, they were dubbed as freedom fighters and obtained military help from some Western countries.

The "Racak disaster" was one of the cases reported by the media as the evidence of Serbians' "ethnic cleansing." As CNN and BBC played down the story of four Serbian policemen who were ambushed and killed, they spared no space to the deaths of 44 ethnic Albanians who died in the retaliation by the Yugoslav army. International forensic pathologists proved later that none of the victims were civilians, but were the separatist militants who had killed the Serbian police.

As Western powers tore down their disguises as the firemen who came to end the crisis in Kosovo and became arsonists, the mainstream Western media played a role in fanning ethnic hatred with biased and unprofessional reporting.

The breakdown of Rambouillet talks in France was an incentive to NATO bombing. The whole world was led to believe that Serbians blocked the peace process because they refused to sign the pact.

But anyone who has read Appendix B of the Rambouillet agreement would understand why the country had objected this humiliating pact.

According to this appendix, which clarifies the operation of a "multi-national military implementation force," "NATO personnel shall enjoy, together with their vehicles, vessels, aircraft and equipment, free and unrestricted passage and unimpeded access throughout the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia including associated airspace and territorial waters..." and "in carrying out its authorities under this Chapter, NATO is authorized to detain individuals and, as quickly as possible, turn them over to appropriate officials."

How would anyone in their right mind trust NATO's pledge to "respect Yugoslavia's sovereignty and territorial integrity" in the first paragraph of the agreement?

"Not a single responsible government in the world would sign such an agreement," said Jurgen Elsasser, a journalist of Konkret, a German political magazine.

No major Western media explained the real reason why Serbians did not sign the contract.

When this interesting detail was translated and made known to people two months later, the real humanitarian disaster had already occurred in Kosovo and other parts of Yugoslavia.

As the bombing broke out, NATO's manipulation and control of media could be seen more obviously. To justify NATO bombings, its spokespeople would not hesitate to spread rumours to the media.

On March 25, NATO spokespeople spread the news that ethnic Albanian leader Rugova was killed by Serbians to divert reporters' attention on the airstrikes' legitimacy and the damage caused by the bombing.

Elsasser's magazine told the story behind the "Operation Horseshoe," a plan which was used as proof of Serbia's persecution of ethnic Albanians.

On April 6, 1999, the German Defence Ministry disclosed the ''Operation Horseshoe'' to the media. The Yugoslav Government had a long-term plan to expel ethnic Albanians in an organized way along the border of Kosovo. The plan got its name from the horseshoe-shaped boundary of Kosovo.

This astonishing news was made public after 14 days of bombing, when it became obvious that the "humanitarian catastrophe" in Kosovo was not the reason for NATO intervention, as its leaders claimed, but the result of it, said Elsasser.

Elsasser's magazine Konkret carried a chapter of German retired brigadier general Heinz Loquai's book about Kosovo crisis in the May edition this year.

The general denied that there had ever been a Serbian plan "Operation Horseshoe." In his book, Loquai pointed out that German Defence Ministry had fabricated the "plan" on the basis of a vague and unconfirmed intelligence report from an Eastern European country.

"The facts to support its existence are terribly meagre," said Loquai, now working for the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe. For one thing, he said, German Defence Ministry was so hurried to produce a convincing story that it named the allegedly Serbian plan with the wrong word "Potkova," which was a Croatian, not Serbian, word for horseshoe.

"This fabricated story was used to extinguish the criticism of NATO bombing, which had grown into a fire that was almost out of control," said the general.

As the international community remain nonplused over the deteriorating Kosovo situation one year after NATO bombing, an increasing number of Western journalists have rethought the media's role in the disaster.

We have seen an obvious manipulation of public opinion by the war machines while some Western media have been used as a loud hailer of lies.

I think it is time to review the basic canons of this noble profession. After all, the freedom of the press is not the freedom to lie.

In a sense, the media are also the victims of the Kosovo war because their reputations have been very much damaged

>>>By IGOR ( - 149.99.71.65) on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 01:50 am:
Turk: What about the part of the Arabs you omitted comment on that?Maybe you would like to discuss the 40,000 Kurds that your country rapes and tortures and murders in cold bold. >>>>

Are you telling me that Russian army are composed of pure blooded Russians? As far as I can see from the photos, half of your soldiers are from some ethnic minorities. Why are they in the Russian army? It must be either due to their support of Russia, or they have been enlisted by force (of law).

If any Arabian mujahideen are fighting alongside Chechens, what's the difference? They are helping their brothers against the Russian agression. Do you think that they should keep a blind eye to Russian murders and rapes? God bless those mujahideen!

Last time when a number was listed (a few months ago), it was 30,000. I did not hear about another 10,000 death, so you must have some sources, which I don't have. And you are forgetting that almost half of the dead are Turkish. Including pregnant women, babies, and old people.

I don't think you and others bringing Kurdish question, really care about Kurds. They are our Muslim brothers. You hate Muslims, Kurds are no exception. Your interest is only for point scoring, and wishing to see the Muslims fighting with each other. That's the reason you try to stir conflict between Iraq and Iran, Iran and Turkey, Turks and Kurds, Kurds and Arabs, etc. etc.

But Islam is waking up. There is no nationalism in Islam, and we are all brothers and slaves of Allah. You better get use to it.

>>>By IGOR ( - 149.99.71.65) on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 02:16 am:
Freedom of press, freedom to lie? >>>

Igor,
Are you part of Russian Information warfare? Are you being paid for all the work you are doing? Hope you don't mind asking!

>>>>Russia is again growling at Georgia, complaining about its porous border with Chechnya and the activities of the Chechen “embassy” in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi. Both protests ring a bit hollow. International monitors on the border do not support the Kremlin’s claims that numerous Chechen fighters are lurking there—and any leaks, it might be argued, are just as much Russia’s fault as Georgia’s. It is hard to see what can stop Hizir Aldamov, a local citizen who represents Mr Maskhadov in Tbilisi, from calling himself an ambassador, issuing press releases and helping refugees. The Kremlin’s spokesman, Sergei Yastrzhembsky, is unimpressed. “They say they’re a friendly country. If they can’t find the necessary law, that’s their problem.” Once again, Russia’s way of making friends and influencing people is making its neighbours nervous. >>>>

How would you like live next to a big-bad-bully?

By Turk ( - 210.23.129.62) on Sunday, July 2, 2000 - 03:57 am:
>>>>>By Antonio ( - 209.239.212.157) on Saturday, July 1, 2000 - 11:43 pm:


>Antonio,

>1. Why do you think that Jesus is talking
>himself seperate and distinct from Father?

Study Catholicism Turk and you will learn the answer. I could tell you, but if you are really interested in the truth (which I don't believe, because I know you Turks - you smile at a man and pretend to be his friend, but when his back is turned you cold-bloodedly plunge the knife into him) then you can seek the answers for yourself.
I'll give you a hint for your search criteria Turk: Search under "Holy Trinity", or "Trinity".

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01258b.htm

2. Who do you think the Paraclete is?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01258b.htm

Hint Turk: Search under "Paraclete", "Holy Trinity", "Trinity", "Holy Ghost", "Holy Spirit", or "Spirit of God".

>Could it be that you are committing a sin, by
>saying Jesus is God, which is vehemently denied
>by Jesus himself.

No Turk, I am not commiting a sin by saying that Jesus is God, because Jesus is God, and You are guilty of slander and calling God a liar by claiming that Jesus "vehemently denied" being God, because Jesus never denied being God, but in fact declared that He is God.


>Could it be that the Paraclete, Jesus mentioned,
>is the prophet Mohammad?

How could the devil-possesed rapist bandit infidel Mohammed who is now burning in Hell be the Paraclete?

> After all he gave testimony of Jesus, as Jesus
>predicted.

Mohammed gave false testimony about Jesus, as Jesus predicted there would come false prophets and deceivers like Mohammed.

>Could it be possible that you are so blinded
>with the teaching of the church which claims to
>speak on behalf of God, you are not able to see
>whatever little uncorrupted truth left in the
>bible you are quoting?

Turk, if I didn't think you were an obstinate Mohammedan infidel I'd be tempted to think that you are a Freemason by the smooth way you weave lies. Your question makes several false presumptions. First, The teaching of the Church enlightens a man, and it is they who reject the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church who remain in blindness. Second, as is written in Scripture, Christ said to His Disciples "He who hears you, hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me." Christ in fact sent His Church to teach the world, and the Church can do nothing without Christ. The Church claims to speak on behalf of Christ because it is true, and if the Church were to deny this, then the Church would be no better than you Turk - a liar.

Regarding the Bible, that was translated into Latin from the Septuagint and all the Hebrew and Chaldean writings by St. Jerome around 300 A.D.
St. Jerome had access to all the extant texts and he was an expert in languages including Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Aramaic and Chaldean. The fruit of his work was the Latin Vulgate, which the Catholic Church uses in the Mass. From the Latin Vulgate was made the Douay Rheims translation (English) and others. The Douay Rheims is the only legitimate English translation of the bible and it is free from all corruption - all other English translations have various errors in them introduced by the Protestant heretics. I have also found to my dismay, many versions in French, Russian, Armenian, and Spanish which have been corrupted with Protestant errors, and I am not here referring to the obvious infernal liar translations like the Jehovah's (False) Witnesses New World Translation (NWT), but to the translations that are mostly derivatives of the King James Version (the first Protestant heretical translation).

And so Turk if you are truly interested in the truth, then get a copy of the Haydock Douay Rheims Bible. The difference between the Haydock Douay Rheims and the ordinary Douay Rheims is that the Haydock version comes with footnote explanations of the Scriptures as interpreted by the Roman Catholic Church.

I'm not another, get a grip. My name is betterthanyou, or Kevin I will not disguess my name.