By IGOR ( - 149.99.72.44) on Sunday, July 2, 2000 - 01:50 pm:
>Antonio I am assuming you are Armenian,are you
>Catholic or Orthodox since I have never met any
>Catholic Armenians?Just wondering.

It is never prudent to make assumptions without sufficient information to render them valid. I am Roman Catholic and Spanish, born in Ciudad de Nuestra Senora, Santa Reina de los Angeles, U.S.-occupied Spain. Yeah, Spain. Remember how we kicked the Mohammedan infidels and the Perfidious Jews outta town in 1492; next we shall expel the Protestant/Masonic/Jew invaders from the Western Hemisphere. And unlike the Protestants, Masons, Jews, and Mohammedans, ya ochen lublu Rossiyu i Ruskiy chelovyek. Russia is a great country which will be resurrected and save the world.

It is a mistake to distinguish between Catholic and Orthodox, because all true Catholics are orthodox, but the members of the so-called Orthodox Churches are really schismatics who broke away from the Catholic Church because they found it inconvenient to obey the authority of the Pope. I have in the past assisted at the Masses in the Armenian and Russian Churches because while separated from the Pope, they maintain a valid Apostolic succession of the priesthood, the true Mass and the true seven Sacraments.

There are in fact tens of thousands of Armenian Catholics. In fact, nearly all the Armenians were Roman Catholics from 301 A.D. until about the middle of the 6th Century, when the Catholic bishops in Armenia broke away from Rome and became schismatics. At various times throughout the history of the schismatic Armenian Church there were Catolicoses (the title of their Patriarchs) who were loyal to Rome, but they could not overcome the inertia of the schismatics which surrounded them. The closest the Armenian Church came to reunion with Rome was at the Council of Florence in 1439 A.D., where the Armenian patriarch agreed that the Pope is the head of the Church. That Armenian Catolicos died in Alexandria and a new Catolicos was elected who was a schismatic opposed to union with the Pope. There was also since the time of the Crusades an Armenian Uniate Church, which was composed of most of the Armenian bishops and their flocks in Cilicia who had been schismatic, but reunited with the Pope. Currently, most of the Armenian Catholics in the world live in Venice (Italy), Vienna, Beirut, Akhalkyalag (Gruzya), and northern Armenia. There is also Armenian Catholic churches in East Los Angeles and in Glendale, and probably a few here and there around U.S.-occupied Spain and U.S.-occupied France.

For more info about the Armenian Catholic Church see
http://home.earthlink.net/~mekhitarist/mekh/hispeed/frame.htm

and for a general history of the Armenians in Christendom see
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01736b.htm

>>>By Antonio ( - 209.239.213.233) on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 04:17 am:

....but if you are really interested in the truth (which I don't believe, because I know you Turks - you smile at a man and pretend to be his friend, but when his back is turned you cold-bloodedly plunge the knife into him) then you can seek the answers for yourself. >>>>

Antonio,
Thanks for the answer. I'll look at the link you provided, and come back to you on that.

I just couldn't resist to comment on the above sentense, which shows the entrenched mistrust between our nations.

The funy think is that Turks say exactly the same thing about Armenians. For example, in Turkey there are a lot of armenians who live in peace, and own many businesses, and occupy high positions both in the private sector and government. I met with quite a few of them during my last visit to Istanbul. They told me how much they love Turks, and hate Armenian fanatics in overseas who are trying to stir problems between them and Turks. Later on one of my Turkish friends told me that don't be with them alone, because if they get their chance they can stab you in back while similing to your face.

Turks don't mind to live with Armenians, but they wouldn't trust their lives to them if Armenians had the numbers or power to dominate the country.

I don't think there are many Turks left to live in Armenia. Whatever left, your kinds surely cut their throats ages ago, don't you think.

In short, Turks don't hate Armenians, but don't trust them. You are welcome to live in Turkey, providing you don't go around cutting babies throats during nights.

By L'acking in decorum and respect ( - 172.156.224.254) on Sunday, July 2, 2000 - 11:13 am:
>ANTONIO:
>people who yearn to burn rabbis at the stake
>have >>no business whatsoeverreferring to anyone, repeat ANYONE else., as a
>'hateful monster'. you have become _hate
>personified_ on this page. congratulations.

You are a slanderer. I never said I yearn to burn rabbis at the stake. It was Martin Luther who said that. I merely advocate hitching up rabbis to farm ploughs in place of using asses.
Why waste a good rabbi? They could even be employed as janitors to clean up toilets with their tongues.

Antonio:
i havent even BEGUN to slander you.

and martin luther to the contrary. you were happy
to incorporate the quote as your own a few weeks
ago.

>>>The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system. >>>

Antonio,
Surely the above explanation is contrary to logic.

1. there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

2. the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.

3. the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.

Why is the central doctrine of Christianity so unlogical?

Assume I made a statement like that:

1. there are Three Fruits, the Banana, the Apple, and the Peach, these Three Fruits being truly distinct one from another.

2. the Fruits are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.

3. the Banana is Fruit, the Apple is Fruit, and the Peach is Fruit, and yet there are not three Fruits but one Fruit.

the people would chase me away for being stupid, and yet are you telling me that this is the central doctrine of your religion? It looks very shaky foundation to me.

ps. Is this the knife you were talking about?

Let us now look from a different angle:

1. the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.

2. the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son.

So your central doctrine is telling us the Son is begotten of the Father, and the Holly Spirit emanates from the Father and the Son.

How can somebody state two things are equal and without a beginning (co-eternal), if the second proceeded from the first before it?

As well, each single element has its own peculiar characteristics which can not be attributed to the others.

Would you accept Holly Spirit be placed at fore, with the Son to follow, and the Father followed these. That is the Son is begotten of the Holly Spirit, and the Father emanates from the Holly Spirit and the Son.

So how they can be at all equal?

By Turk ( - 210.23.129.63) on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 05:16 am:
>>>By Antonio ( - 209.239.213.233) on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 04:17 am:

>Antonio,
>Thanks for the answer. I'll look at the link you >provided, and come back to you on that.

>I just couldn't resist to comment on the above
>sentense, which shows the entrenched mistrust
>between our nations.

The Armenians, and the Serbs, and the Russians, and the Ukrainians, and the Poles, and the Hungarians, and the Bulgarians, and the Italians, and the Austrians, and the Arabs, and the Persians(etc. etc.) have every reason to distrust the Turks, for they all have been the victims of Turkish butchery. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The world (except the English and the USans) are wise to the Turkish game already.


>The funy think is that Turks say exactly the
>same thing about Armenians.

It doesn't matter what the Turks say about anything.

> For example, in Turkey there are a lot of
>armenians who live in peace, and own many
>businesses, and occupy high positions both in
>the private sector and government.

In Turkish-occupied eastern Byzantium and Turkish-occupied western Armenia there are about 60,000 Armenians, and they know if they don't shut their mouths and keep a low profile, they will get their tongues cut out by the Turks like happened to the Kurds for daring to speak Kurdish. Armenians do not live in peace under the brutal Turkish occupation - the Armenians live in terror.
The Turks demolish ancient Armenian churches or convert them into mejits or horse stables. The Turks control elections of the Armenian Patriarchate and do not let the Armenians talk about the Genocide which the Turks perpetrated on them in 1915.

> I met with quite a few of them during my last
>visit to Istanbul. They told me how much they
>love Turks, and hate Armenian fanatics in
>overseas who are trying to stir problems between
>them and Turks.

They parroted this required canned response to your questions in order to avoid being imprisoned by your brutal Godless regime. It was a matter of survival for the Armenians. Could you imagine a Jew protesting the Nazis in WWII Germany? The Jews got along by pretending to be Germans. Likewise the Armenians under the barbarian Turkish occupation survive by pretending to love Turks, but in reality, nobody could love the Turks any more than they could love a brood of cold-blooded slithery vipers.

> Later on one of my Turkish friends told me that
>don't be with them alone, because if they get
>their chance they can stab you in back while
>similing to your face.

Like your Turkish friend is any authoritative word on the subject. How are you any different than those Amerian politicians who fancy truth to be decided by opinion polls?

>Turks don't mind to live with Armenians, but
>they wouldn't trust their lives to them if
>Armenians had the numbers or power to dominate
>the country.

Judging by last year's earthquake response, the building contractors' scandal, and the involvement of the Turkish regime with Hizbollah terrorists and organized crime figures, most Turks probably wouldn't trust their lives to other Turks either.

>I don't think there are many Turks left to live
>in Armenia. Whatever left, your kinds surely cut
>their throats ages ago, don't you think.

Armenia includes the entire eastern half of Anatolia and all the way east to the Caspian Sea. 97% of Armenia is occupied by Ataturks and Azeri Turks. If all the Turks in the world had their throats cut it would be no loss to humanity. The only contribution the Turks have made to the world is murder, rape, and brigandage. No wonder the Turks and the Jews get along so well.


>In short, Turks don't hate Armenians, but don't
>trust them.

The Turks do hate the Armenians out of envy. The Armenians are everything the Turks are not. The Armenians have virtues, talents, art, music, class, a beautiful tradition and glorious history, the Church, etc. What do Turks have? 33rd degree Mason Kemal Ataturk, and a hoarde of bloodthirsty barbarians. What is Turkish culture? Garbage!

> You are welcome to live in Turkey, providing
>you don't go around cutting babies throats
during nights.

There is no country with the name "Turkey". There is only the Turkish entity unlawfully occupying western Armenia. Go back to your central Asian Turkestan steppes! The only way I would enter Turkish-occupied Armenia is from the Arax River as part of an Armenian and Russian invasion force. As for cutting babies throats, that is not an Armenian, but a Turkish custom.
And Turk, you may fool lesser intellects like Kim Arx and the British, but you can't fool the Arabs, Iranians, Europeans etc. I talked to one Persian guy at work and he thought he would inform me about something he thought I didn't already know and he told me that the Turks are known for being vicious and brutal. So Turk, you are cornered - the Mohammedan world finds you unpalatable, and the Europeans find you disgusting, and your only allies are the Jews, Israelis, USans and British - more throatcutters and baby-murderers like unto thyself.

By L'menexe ( - 205.188.199.182) on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 05:34 am:
>Antonio:
>i havent even BEGUN to slander you.

Slander is the only thing you are good at.

>and martin luther to the contrary. you were >happy to incorporate the quote as your own a few
>weeks ago.

I did not incorporate Martin Luther's quote as my own. I posted it to expose the irony that the Jews who supported Martin Luther and enabled his heresy to flourish had become the victims of the beast they helped create. Thus, the Jews got what they deserved, even if the man perpetating the horrors on them was himself a criminal. Same deal with Adolf Hitler. The Jews celebrated when Hitler, like Luther, attacked Roman Catholics, but when Hitler turned on the Jews it didn't seem like such a good idea anymore.

I'm vicious and brutal? Ha ha. People will treat me like a clown if I go out and yell I'm vicious, I am brutal, I am Turk! Ha, Ha, so funy.

You are one unique individual. As I said before I only feel pity for you, regardless of what you say.

For your information, some of the Armenians I met was during an Armenian festival, where Armenian schools were displaying Armenian Folk dances, and they were singing Armenian songs (in Armenian).

You have no idea about Turkey and Turks. You are a brain-washed, hate-mongering person. I hope you are not beyond help.

L'menexe:

Don't quite understand your saying I'm angry over the insult and of the cottage industry remark

Please qualify

What are we being exposed to this fine day? Is it the religious right or left, moralistic majority or minorities? Somehow there appears to be more authoritive positioning here than at a divinity school, or muslim or jewish oriented religious schools.

Sory HM, I just couldn't let Antonio get away with his B.S. Naturally, You are not under any obligation to read.

TURK:

I do indeed read all. I'm open minded enough to realize that, at times, there may be a learning experience to be realized from some of these postings. Whether it be from you, or Igor, or yes, Antonio, or whom ever.

By Antonio ( - 209.239.213.233) on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 06:12 am:

> Later on one of my Turkish friends told me that
>don't be with them alone, because if they get
>their chance they can stab you in back while
>similing to your face.

Like your Turkish friend is any authoritative word on the subject. How are you any different than those Amerian politicians who fancy truth to be decided by opinion polls?

I talked to one Persian guy at work and he thought he would inform me about something he thought I didn't already know and he told me that the Turks are known for being vicious and brutal

Thank you Turk, but no need to apologize, I understand.