Now when it comes to Iraq, would anyone really want a guy like sadam to posses weapons of mass distruction, plus he threw a 11 million dollar birthday party for himself a month or so ago. The hungry children of Iraq need to blame sadam. He goes arround building palace after palace, lets the oil for food, food sit in warehouses instead of getting to his people and throwing 11 million dollar b-day parties for himself. In a way he wants his people to starve to he can try to get people , like some on this board, to shake there finger at the U.S., bascally using the lives of children to shape peoples opinions, and it looks like some a falling for it.

Now about Korea, it was the North that invaded the South, and there is no doubt South Korea is better off today due to the U.S. and U.N. coming to its rescue. Another thing the U.S. has been responsable for feeding 1/3rd of North Korea over the past three years. Now about the recent stores of US troops killing civilians during the early days of the conflict. First off isn't it good to know a country like the US would investigate someing like this that happened so long ago instead of saying just "oh-well". What has come out of the investigation. According to US News and World reports many of the eye witness (US G.I.s) were not even stationed in the area where it took place. Be that as it may if it turns out the killing did take place the U.S. has said it would make compinsation. Does anyone ever think N. Korea would ever do such a thing, (make compinsation for there dirty deeds, no)

2 Russian Soldiers Killed in Grozny

By YURI BAGROV, Associated Press Writer

NAZRAN, Russia (AP) - Two Russian soldiers were shot and killed in broad daylight by rebels who fled after opening fire in an open-air market in Grozny, an Interior Ministry official said Wednesday.

A third Russian soldier was killed Tuesday in a land-mine explosion, Gen. Stanislav Kavun, first deputy commander of Interior Ministry troops, told
the ITAR-Tass news agency.

The two soldiers were patrolling the market on Tuesday when they were attacked, said Sergei Poryadin, from the Interior Ministry press office in Mozdok.

He said that another soldier was wounded in Grozny, capital of the rebellious region, on
Tuesday when rebels opened fire on a railway station with grenade-launchers and automatic
weapons.

Chechen militants have recently been launching hit-and-run attacks in Russian-controlled
areas of the breakaway republic. They have also favored car bombs and remote-controlled mines to pick off Russian military personnel and Chechen civilians who are aiding the Russian forces.

``Reconnaissance has worked well, several land-mines have been found in time, but bandits managed to blast one land-mine of directed action,'' Kavun was quoted as saying. He said that several other soldiers were wounded in the mine blast near the village of Avtury, near Grozny.

can ya beleive this Djopa of Uzbek?? The little guy is probably jumping of joy and humping his boy john because two soldiers died..whatta maroon! LOL
Anyway, you forgot to mention the rest of the article, Uzbek:

"""Meanwhile, Russia's newly installed administrative head in Chechnya, Mufti Akhmad Kadyrov, called on Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov to resign.
In an interview with the Trud daily newspaper, which was published Wednesday, the Muslim cleric said Maskhadov had neither opposed Islamic rebels nor warned Moscow when they were planning to raid neighboring Dagestan last summer.
``Instead, he is calling for war, sending young people to die and at the same time packing off his own children and family abroad, further away from the bullets,'' Kadyrov was quoted as saying.
He said that his first task as Chechnya's new leader was to end the war.
``For 400 years we have fought against Russia. And we didn't achieve anything,'' Kadyrov said. ``The time has come to try living in peace for at least 100 years.''
He also said that he would try to bring back the doctors and other professionals who have fled Chechnya throughout the 1990s, ITAR-Tass reported."""
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000621/wl/russia_chechnya_23.html

This voice of the Chechen (NO, not a Kremlin puppet), and NOT the Chechnyan rebel/terrorist/freedom fighter. Not that I need your comments on that, uzbek, just showing everybody that Uzbekskaia Djopa is the lieing one.

P.S. Oh, yeah, got another reason for you to selebrate - I just pulled a hair outta my ass( that hurt real bad), wontcha selebrate now. LOL. It's o n me, chief. R O F L

2x3=..if I were anything like you, uzbek, I'd be jumping of joy now:

Russian federal forces discovered and wiped out a group of 6 Chechen rebels in the mountainous part of the republic, the headquarters of the United Grouping of federal forces in the North Caucasus told Interfax on Wednesday.


Rebel formations are continuing to employ guerilla warfare tactics, the military said. Rebels have fired on federal blockposts five times, on administrative buildings twice and have attacked border guard positions eight times in the past twenty four hours.


The Russian military located and disarmed two remote-controlled explosive devices and four personnel mines on roads.

_____________
but I am just glad that Russians are keep on doing their job. Sometimes slowly, but s u r e l y.

By Gonzo ( - 207.230.144.233) on Wednesday, June 21, 2000 - 05:58 pm:
As far as the U.S. using "the bomb" on Japan. It saved more lives then would have died in a full scale invasion of japan. If I was a G.I. who just got done in the battle against Hitler and was being told now I have to go fight in Japan I would say hell yea use the bomb.

************************************

This is the typical canned response from U.S. apologists - "We saved lives by murdering them."

As for the US G.I.s, they didn't do the dying against Hitler - the Russians did. It is typical of cowardly Americans to prefer to nuke whole civilian populations or fly B-2 bombers at 60,000 feet and carpet bomb or use Tomahawk missiles on various countries' infrastructure rather than send in some American G.I.s who might actually have to fight.

By Gonzo ( - 207.230.144.233) on Wednesday, June 21, 2000 - 06:07 pm:
Now when it comes to Iraq, would anyone really want a guy like sadam to posses weapons of mass distruction, plus he threw a 11 million dollar birthday party for himself a month or so ago. The hungry children of Iraq need to blame sadam. He goes arround building palace after palace, lets the oil for food, food sit in warehouses instead of getting to his people and throwing 11 million dollar b-day parties for himself. In a way he wants his people to starve to he can try to get people , like some on this board, to shake there finger at the U.S., bascally using the lives of children to shape peoples opinions, and it looks like some a falling for it.

******************************************

Most of the people in the world are less concerned with Saddam Hussein possesing a few nukes big enough and with range enough to make glass lakes out a few sand dunes in Saudi Arabia
than they are with the sadistic monster United States war machine with tens of thousands of intercontinental range nukes in its arsenal that it uses to blackmail the entire world into submission to its will.

It is utter hypocrisy that Americans envy Saddam Hussein spending 11 million dollars on a birthday party for himself when U.S. politicians do the same thing, except to them 11 million dollars is chump change. Who should he hungry children and homeless in the US blame? Saddam? Slobo? Anybody but the US right? Who he hell does the US think it is that it can interfere in the right of other countries to conduct their business? Who is the US to blockade (an act of war) Iraq? Has the US Congress passed a declaration of war against Iraq with the reqired constitutional 2/3 majority in both houses? How dare the US force Iraq o trade oil for food! These sort of blatant arrogant imperialism and bullying by the US is what frightens the entire planet and convinces people that the US is the greatest threat to peace ever known in human history.

By Gonzo ( - 207.230.144.233) on Wednesday, June 21, 2000 - 06:25 pm:
Now about Korea, it was the North that invaded the South, and there is no doubt South Korea is better off today due to the U.S. and U.N. coming to its rescue. Another thing the U.S. has been responsable for feeding 1/3rd of North Korea over the past three years. Now about the recent stores of US troops killing civilians during the early days of the conflict. First off isn't it good to know a country like the US would investigate someing like this that happened so long ago instead of saying just "oh-well". What has come out of the investigation. According to US News and World reports many of the eye witness (US G.I.s) were not even stationed in the area where it took place. Be that as it may if it turns out the killing did take place the U.S. has said it would make compinsation. Does anyone ever think N. Korea would ever do such a thing, (make compinsation for there dirty deeds, no)

********************************************

Whatever problems the Koreans had it was their problem, their business, and the US had no right to interfere. North Korea never did anything to the US, but since the US attacked the North Koreans, they have every right to be angry with the US and demand compensation from the US. As for South Korea being better off with the US, recall the corruption and repression of US- supported Park Chung Hee, Chun Doo Huan, Roe Tae Woo, and Kim Young Sam.

You say: "Now about the recent stores of US troops killing civilians during the early days of the conflict. First off isn't it good to know a country like the US would investigate someing like this that happened so long ago instead of saying just "oh-well"."

Well what do you think the US was doing for the last 50 years? The survivors were trying to get justice and recognition of the US atrocities but the US was covering it up for all these decades! And now you will sit here and smugly pontificate about the virtues of the US which for investigating these atrocities? What nerve! The only reason the US is investigating the atrocities it committed is so that it can issue a report whitewashing its actions. Such pathetic transparent hypocrites you defenders of the US!

As for the claims of US News and World Report, no serious investigator of the truth would lend any credibility to this US propaganda rag. As for G.I.s not being stationed in at the scene of U.S. crimes, that is to be expected, since a soldier's place of station is the barracks, not the battlefield.

Russia Heightens Military Alert in Tajikistan
2335 GMT, 000621
The Russian Defense Ministry announced June 21 that it intended to disband its peacekeeping force in Tajikistan, which had been tasked with preventing a flare-up of the fighting that engulfed the country in civil war from 1992 until 1997. However, Russia said the force’s mission would now focus on anti-terrorism. In Moscow, “anti-terrorist” has been a euphemism for offensive actions against rebels and criminals. Hence, this seems more like the authorization for an offensive than the phasing out of a peacekeeping mission.

Since the end of the Tajik civil war, Russia has maintained between 6,000 and 8,000 troops – the 201st motorized division – within Tajikistan. According to a 1999 agreement between Russia and Tajikistan, the 201st motorized division is preparing to move into a permanent base 70km southeast of the capital, Dushanbe. Moscow also controls an additional 11,000 guards on the border between Tajikistan and Afghanistan, despite the fact that Russia and Tajikistan do not abut one another.

Moscow has terminated a peacekeeping mission, which is largely defensive in nature, only to turn around and open the door to an offensive operation in Tajikistan. Taking into account the ongoing example of the Chechen “anti-terrorist action,” it becomes apparent that by tasking the 201st division with an anti-terrorist mission, Moscow is at least preparing to step up its operations in Tajikistan.

Russia’s heightened military stance does not threaten Tajikistan’s government, which is Russia’s most loyal and dependent ally in Central Asia. However, there are several other reasons why Russia may need to be on the alert in the region.

For one, Moscow recently hinted that it was considering strikes against the ruling Taliban in Afghanistan. In response, the Taliban warned that if Russia carried out its threat it would take its vengeance on Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Tajikistan has virtually no self-defense capability and will rely wholly on Russia to protect it in such an instance.

Second, bands of Islamic fundamentalist bandits roam relatively freely among the Central Asian states, kidnapping, stealing, killing and ignoring basic laws. On June 21 a Chinese businessman was kidnapped in neighboring Kyrgyzstan and is being held for ransom. The religious extremists, who are armed, virtually homeless and often willing to act as mercenaries, threaten the entire region’s security as well as Russia’s own safety.

While seeming to retreat from its involvement in the region, Moscow has in fact switched its military mandate in Tajikistan from defensive to offensive. Regardless of the specific intent, military resources are scarce in Russia, and the move in Tajikistan is likely either the beginning of a Russian initiative or a reaction to threats already strong in the region.

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/chuss/willful.htm

That was no war, it was homicide - and still Iraqis die
Behind the official version of Desert Storm lie awful secrets of a one-sided slaughter, writes John Pilger.

The great American reporter Seymour Hersh is at war with the American military over his report in The New Yorker that one of its most lauded generals, now a member of President Bill Clinton's Cabinet, ordered his troops to fire on retreating Iraqis on the eve of the Gulf War ceasefire in 1991.

Barry McCaffrey, commander of the 24th Infantry Division, has denied accusations such as the machine-gunning of 350 disarmed Iraqi prisoners. "Why are we shooting at these people when they are not shooting at us?" says one of his men on a tape quoted by Hersh. "It's murder," says another.

The allegations against McCaffrey suggest he was a bad apple. But the enduring secret of the 1991 Gulf War was that it was not a war at all, rather an epic act of homicide. A great deal of propaganda has been devoted to covering up this truth and promoting the precision of so-called smart weapons, as if war has finally become a science.

The bombing of the Al-Amiriya bunker in Baghdad in February 1991, incinerating more than 300 people, mostly women and children, was immediately blamed on Saddam Hussein. The bunker, we were told, was a "military facility".

Although the lie was exposed by several reporters, the taint of "Iraqi reporting restrictions" remained. Britain's Independent Television News said it was censoring its report because the material was "too distressing".

Six months later, the unedited CNN and World Television News "feeds" of footage of the bunker were obtained by the Columbia Journalism Review. "They showed scenes of incredible carnage," wrote the reporter who viewed them. "Rescue workers were collapsing in grief, vomiting from the stench, dropping blackened corpses."

The atrocity was passed over quickly, and the "coverage" returned to its main theme of a sanitised, scientific war. Unknown to reporters corralled in Saudi Arabia, less than 7 per cent of the weapons used in the Gulf War were "smart"; most were old-fashioned "dump" bombs. Seventy per cent of the 88,500 tonnes dropped on Iraq and Kuwait - the equivalent of more than seven Hiroshimas - hit no military targets and fell in populated areas.

Paul Roberts, one of the few journalists to escape the "pool" system, travelled with Bedouins. "I experienced bombing in Cambodia, but it was nothing like that ..." he said. "There were three waves every night. After 20 minutes of this carpet bombing there would be a silence and you would hear a screaming of children and people. [The survivors] were walking around like zombies."

This was never published in the mainstream media, nor was the overwhelming evidence that - as in Vietnam and last year in Serbia and Kosovo - civilians were not mistakenly killed, but targeted. Cluster bombs, still killing and maiming children in Kosovo, are, as the label says, "anti-personnel".

As the ceasefire was being negotiated with Iraq, columns of retreating other nationalities who had been trapped in Kuwait, mostly guest workers, were attacked by American carrier-based aircraft. They used cluster bombs and napalm B, the type that sticks to the skin while continuing to burn. Returning pilots bragged about a "duck shoot" and a "turkey shoot". Others likened it to "shooting fish in a barrel".

Unknown to journalists in the pool system, in the two days before the ceasefire (when the McCaffrey atrocities allegedly happened), American armoured bulldozers were deployed, mostly at night, burying Iraqis alive in their trenches.

Six months later, the New York Newsday reported that three brigades of the 1st Mechanised Infantry Division used snow ploughs mounted on tanks and combat earthmovers to bury thousands of Iraqi soldiers - some still alive - in more than 110 kilometres of trenches.

A brigade commander, Colonel Anthony Moreno, said: "For all I know, we could have killed thousands." To my knowledge, the only images of this shown in the West included a few fleeting pictures on the BBC.

The policy of the American commander, General Norman Schwarzkopf, was that Iraqi dead were not to be counted. One of his senior officers boasted: "This is the first war in modern times where every screwdriver, every nail, is accounted for."

As for human beings, he added: "I don't think anybody is going to be able to come up with an accurate count for the Iraqi dead."

The London Independent rejoiced in the "miraculously light casualties". In the US, there was some attempt to root out the truth. However, this was confined to very few newspapers, such as Newsday, and samizdat publications such as Z magazine, which publishes Noam Chomsky.

Shortly before Christmas 1991 the Medical Educational Trust in London published a comprehensive study of casualties. Up to 250,000 men, women and children were killed or died as a direct result of the American-led attack on Iraq. A one-sided slaughter.

In evidence before the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee, the major international relief agencies reported that 1.8million people had been made homeless, and Iraq's electricity, water, sewerage, communications, health, agriculture and industrial infrastructure had been "substantially destroyed", producing "conditions for famine and
epidemics".

Most of this was not reported, or was tucked away. In the most covered war in history, almost everybody had missed the story.

It is hardly surprising that, in the nine years since, the death of half a million children due to economic sanctions, and the continuing bombing of populated areas in Iraq by American and British aircraft, are not news. "The thought that the state is punishing so many innocent people," wrote playwright Arthur Miller, "is intolerable. And so the evidence has to be internally denied."

Why has the War Crimes Tribunal for Yugoslavia suppressed forensic testimony about Srebrenica?


www.tenc.net [emperors-clothes]

by Jared Israel and Max Sinclair (6-22-00)
Just before the ICTY recessed at the beginning of June, there was nearly a full week of detailed forensic testimony in the case of Bosnian Serb General Radislav Krstic. How come none of this testimony has been published ?

General Krstic is on trial for his alleged role in what the Tribunal claims was the massacre of thousands of Islamist soldiers which supposedly took place when the Bosnian Serb army took the town of Srebrenica in Bosnian 1995.

I say 'allegedly' and 'supposedly' and 'claims' because the only thing the Tribunal has actually proven is that the Serb Army did defeat the Islamist forces at Srebrenica in '95.

The rest is accusation devoid of evidence.

After four years of press releases full of propaganda and unsupported claims, the Tribunal has not produced a shred of evidence that there was in fact a massacre.

The forensic experts' testimony was the Tribunal's big chance. Finally they could show the public some scientific evidence supporting NATO's claim that General Radislav Krstic's soldiers killed pows loyal to Nasir Oric in Srebrenica.

Yet there is no news. Not one article about the testimony. No interviews, no emotional statements from forensic experts overwhelmed by horrors perpetrated by 'The Serbs'. Nothing.

Why not?

Why does the ICTY refuse to let the various Forensic Teams publish their findings?

Yugoslavia says the whole Krstic trial is an effort to turn matters upside down. That during the period when Islamist forces under Nasir Oric controlled Srebrenica they killed some 3,200 Serbian and moderate Muslim civilians in the area. Nasser Oric went public at that time, actually showing a video of Serbian civilians mutilated by his troops. And Emperors Clothes has access to extensive evidence, collected according to the most rigorous legal standards, supporting the Yugoslav charges.

On the other side, what is there? With all the resources of NATO backing the Tribunal, what is there? There is only…a claim. NATO's claim that Gen. Krstic's soldiers killed 8,000 Islamist pows.

According to the tribunal, forensic scientists have discovered 1,668 bodies 'in and around the Srebrenica area'. Is this true? We have only the Tribunal's word. And if it is true, whose bodies did the forensic experts find?

Now we are told the experts have testified. Why hasn't their testimony been made public?

Is it because they didn't testify the way NATO wanted them to testify?

Is it because they didn't say thousands of pows were killed by Krstic's soldiers? Because they said the bodies they had uncovered were the bodies of Serbian and moderate Muslim civilians murdered by Nasser Oric's terrorists, allied with NATO?

One might object to this line of reasoning. One might say "Why should a court publicize testimony in a trial? Why should a court treat testimony as propaganda?"

And that would be fair enough except that the War Crimes Tribunal is notorious for attacking 'The Serbs' at every opportunity - before there is testimony, after supposedly hearing secret testimony, or even just to repeat some rumor. For example, consider this from today's 'Associated Press:'

"Chief Prosecutor of the International War Crimes Tribunal for former Yugoslavia Carla del Ponte, center, looks at a coffin being removed from a mass grave site by ICTY investigators in the village of Qirez, central Kosovo, on Wednesday, June 21, 2000. Del Ponte is on the second day of her visit to Kosovo where she met with U.N. and KFOR officials as well as Albanian and Serb community leaders." (AP Photo/Visar Kryezium, 6/21/200)
Aside from the fact that this anti-Serb press release offers no evidence as to exactly who is buried in the graveyard - Serbs killed by the KLA? Serbs, Albanians or 'Gypsies' who died of natural causes? Albanian loyalists assassinated by Albanian secessionists? KLA terrorists shot in battle by the Yugoslav Army?

Aside from the question, "Since when do bloodsthristy mass murderers bury their victims in wooden coffins?" (To which the obvious answer is: ''Never.")

Aside from these questions there is another: "Since when do serious international courts send their chief prosecutors to make appearances when coffins are being pulled out of the ground in order to stage mass grave photo ops?"

To which the answer is: "They don't, not if they are indeed serious international courts." Which suggests that the War Crimes Tribunal is indeed not a serious international court. It is the propaganda arm of NATO, organized by Madeline Albright, financed by NATO, designed and groomed and paid very well thank you to prove that NATO has done and is doing the right thing and that 'The Serbs' are monsters.

So how come this War Crimes Tribunal and its Public Relations staff didn't stage any photo ops with the forensic experts who testified about Srebrenica?

Isn't this silence really rather eloquent

Which way out of Kosovo?


One year after the end of the NATO bombing campaign in Kosovo, the international "peacekeeping" effort still has no exit strategy, and ethnic cleansing has continued to displace thousands of men, women and children. Of the 40,000 Serbs in the capital city of Pristina before the war, only 400 remain, according to a CATO Institute report released this month. American taxpayers are supplying the inept effort with as much as $2.5 billion a year, and may be doing that for decades to come, the report said.
Interestingly, the evidence indicates the same rebel corps that the United Nations and the United States adopted as the guerrilla force of choice is largely responsible for the cleansing, according to a report by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Through executions, torture and house burnings members of the former Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and other armed Albanian groups are ensuring that Kosovo becomes part of a "Greater Albania."
Appalling at best, the U.N.-sponsored rebels, now sporting the name Kosovo Peace Corps, still won praise for their progress in ethnic reconciliation from President Clinton, the report said. The honorable deed? Posting a call for the end of violence on the KLA's Web site. Too bad the majority of the Kosovar population had neither Web access nor a fluent understanding of English, the language rebel leader Hashim Thaci chose for the declaration.
NATO's peacekeeping thus turns out to be as successful as its military efforts. A suppressed Air Force report obtained by Newsweek last month showed how NATO pilots were duped —many times. According to the report, which top NATO commander Gen. Wesley Clark and Washington did not want to accept, only 14 tanks were destroyed, not 120 as originally claimed; 18 armored personnel carriers rather than 220 and 20 artillery pieces rather than 450; and only 58 of 744 air strikes could be confirmed.
The Air Force team investigating the numbers, a group called the Munitions Effectiveness Assessment Team (MEAT), said NATO bombers repeatedly bombed a fake bridge the Serbs had built from polyethylene. That wasn't the only mistaken target either. Serbs built a fake aircraft made from the metal liner used to make European milk cartons and made artillery from logs and truck wheels. These are the kinds of prestigious targets NATO bombed to "victory."
Whom does NATO think it's fooling? Not Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic, who is riding high on a construction and power kick in his new and improved Yugoslavia. Not the Kosovars, of whom tens of thousands are displaced. One hopes NATO will no longer continue to deceive the American public, which was asked to give the commander in chief and NATO its trust when they said they were defending U.S. interests in Kosovo last year. http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/ed-house-2000621175420.htm

Igor, we heard you alright, already!!!!
Oy.
Still mixing fact with fiction I see.

THX, (Mr Gunns???), what you were saying re Better, Aren't you in fact doing the same? Aren't we all doing that here, when we hurl abuse at someone disagreeing with us??

Better explained his name to me before, it was an ironic choice in response to someone who felt they were better than the rest of us and said as much!
Why do you take that personally? It would only be insulting if deep down you felt yourself to be inferior to Better.
Your eloquency would seem to prove otherwise.

And by the way, what you are saying I have been hearing for over a year now, beginning to see the light, but do you really expect to overturn someones opinion with a few posts.
The truth hurts!!! Be gentle on those who are having trouble hearing it.

Good to have you on board, about time we had some new "faces" round here.

Kim

Obviously some people on this board have not heard me.How are you anyways this fine morning Kim?