By Gonzo ( - 207.230.144.233) on Thursday, June 22, 2000 - 04:26 pm:
Dimitri, I will respond to you as well as thx. But come on were talking about WWII here. THX would like us the believe that Japan was such a peace loving country at the time and evil America came in and wiped off the face of the earth. WWII was an all out war. The projected number of casualties for the invasion of japan would have been about a million, not just Japanese women and children that included US troops Japanese troops , civilians, because yes kids WWII was not a clean cut war where armies stood on a field by themseles , civilians did get in the way. By the way THX did you ever here of the rape of Nanking (sp.)

The question was why would the U.S. have to invade Japan at all. Simple because they didn't surrender up till that point. After 4 years of war what was the US to do, say ok were done and let Japan re-arm with the same government in place that started the war that took so many lives?

---

What did Nanking have to do with the US? That was between the Filopinos and the Japanese. Who commissioned the US as Globocop? Who made the US judge over Japan's morality (or lack thereof)?

So what if Japan hadn't surrendered at that point? That means Japan still had soldiers and sailors in the battlefields and battlewaters which the US forces could have engaged. But no! Instead of fighting against the Japanese miltary like real men, the US commits nuclear terrorism against unarmed Japanese women and children!

Your point on Japanese rearmament after a hypothetical surrender is dubious because Japan was unable to rearm anyway or build ships because the US had cut off all its supply of scrap iron, which, in conjunction with the US Flying Tigers attacks on Japanese forces is what provoked the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. (This also refutes your claim aout Japan starting the war - what right did the US have to interfere in a conflict between Japan and China?)

Morover, even if after time the Japanese had managed to rearm, then so what? Whatever happened to the oft-puffed Captain Kirk, Picard, Cisko and Janeway morality where the enemy vessel is allowed to go on his way after being only minorly damaged and weapons systems temporalily knocked out? It seems the US wanted to impose its final solution on Japan, in contradiction to the oft-blustered US moralizing about genocide and human rights.

By Gonzo ( - 207.230.144.233) on Thursday, June 22, 2000 - 04:32 pm:
"fly B-2 bombers at 60,000 feet and carpet bomb"
THX name one time that has happened?

"the US uses its nukes to blackmail the entire world"

Really, when has the US said "do this or we will nuke you?"


A couple of other questions.

After WWII who was more free and where would you prefer to live ,eastern europe or western europe?

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The US has carpet bombed both Iraq and Yugoslavia in the last decade. Whether is was from 20000 feet or 60000 feet is irrelevant. Whether is was with B-2s or B-52'a or Enola Gays is irrelevant.

The US does not need to issue an explicit threat. The very fact that the US has the nukes and has already demonstrated its willingness and propensity to use them, as well as continously to this day justifying its use of them on innocent women and children in populated cities, is an implied threat that needs no words, because actions speak plenty loud enough.

If the US regime really wants to prove that it is not a nuclear blackmailer, then let it unilaterally decommision all its nukes. The US wants the IRA to disarm, and it wants all its citizens to be disarmmed, so let the US regime lead by example by surrendering all its own weapons. Then maybe, the world will be able to see the US as a real peace-maker, instead of the bully and troublemaker it has been for most of its history.

The choice you offer on residence preference is like the big corporations that buy up land, tear down the houses and farms and turn them into toxic waste dumps and then herd the former residents into urban slums. The question to you is, would you rather be a free man with all the hardships that entails, or would you rather be a cog in the machine and enjoy temporary security until the machine breaks down? Would you rather rather live on a small island and survive, or would you prefer to live it up on a luxury cruise liner doomed to sink eventually from a leak in the bottom of the hull?

You apparently prefer the brainwashed underground "civilization" life to the freedom under the sun.
That is why you are the police robot, and I am THX1138.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4456/thx1138.html

O, truth!
So difficult to swollow!
Nah, fuckk them Jappies
So I'm shallow.

Bite me

---

By betterthanyou ( - 155.163.223.114) on Thursday, June 22, 2000 - 04:38 pm:
thx1138
dumbass
dumbass
dumbass
well I guess now I'm completely discredited.
So the same question goes out to you, were is your proof that it didn't happen. I've seen plenty of pictures of what the serbs had done just as you have, but you choose to ignore them. So basically what you are saying is that you were there and know for a fact that the serbs didn't commit any war crimes.

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The burden of proof is on the prosecution.
What pictures have you seen? Who painted them?

I was not there, nor do I need to be, just as juries are not at the scene of an alleged crime when it allegedly occurs, but examine evidence presented in court. The prosecution has failed to present a compelling case, and the defense motion for summary dismissal is granted.

By Suleyman ( - 216.173.66.98) on Thursday, June 22, 2000 - 04:43 pm:
I find it quite moronic when the sentiment of the extremist anti-American members of this board deny the wrong-doing of other militant parties. Does anyone remember what happened to Berlin in the following weeks of Russian occupation? What about the Japanese slaughter in Manchuria? Some historians argue that the atrocity generated during this event alone eclipsed the Holocaust. As I compose these words, I wish not to be mistaken as an American patriot and guardian of imperialism. I am only providing posts for the sake of objectivity...

---

Yes, the Japanese actions in Manchuria, supported by the US which looked the other way while shipping scrap metal to Japan so it could build its war machine and naval fleet.

BERSTEEEEEN:

i've already kicked your silly *ss
more than once
heck, more than _twice_, even.
==
i'm not alone in that respect
but i'm bloody SICK
of individuals here
taking credit
for stuff that I did.
why, i dunno...
==
dont _even_ launch into that 'sephardic' booshwa
you didnt even know what a 'sephardic' was
until I told you.
==
but, indeed, many here wait to tear you up, dude.
maybe you oughta bail out now.

Hi everybody! I haven't been here for a while. I just came back to drop my two cents.


By IGOR ( - 149.99.72.128) on Thursday, June 15, 2000 - 08:37 am:
"Le Figaro": American base was the aim of bombing of Yugoslavia
June 13, 2000 "

I'v never read such a crap! Why would the US build a base in the very Kosovo while it has plenty of space all around it?
It's completely stupid!
On top of that Nato clearly specified that Kosovo remained oficialy part of Yugoslavia.
It's just anti-american socialist crap.

"I don't understand why our leaders want to join NATO," says Kristina Tarasiuk, a 23-year-old civil servant (Ukrainian Girl). "We should be trying to get closer to other former Soviet countries, who are more like us".

She will understand when Russia will join Nato.
It will be sooner than expected.


"By Djuma Namangani ( - 192.11.222.101) on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 01:49 pm:
Stratfor


Chechnya: Is the War Really Over?
27 June 2000
Summary

Despite its proclamations of victory, Russia is no closer to winning the war in Chechnya than it was six months ago. Col. Gen. Gennady Troshev, the military commander for the region, has virtually begged for the resources to finish the job. "

The russians are just waiting the next winter to finish the job.

anti-american socialist crap, hmmm....
as oppose to proud american capitalist??
can we call it anti-american nazist crap or anti-american islamist crap or anti-american populist crap or anti-american generalist crap...possibilities are unlimited.

ps. what do anti-american crap and socialist crap have in common

thank you

By drake ( - 128.101.39.28) on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 07:50 pm:
anti-american socialist crap, hmmm....
as oppose to proud american capitalist??
can we call it anti-american nazist crap or anti-american islamist crap or anti-american populist crap or anti-american generalist crap...possibilities are unlimited.

ps. what do anti-american crap and socialist crap have in common

thank you

---

Since America is supposedly the land of Pluralism, it is impossible for anything to be anti-American, for by definition Pluralism embraces everything, even that which is against it.

By FredLeDingue ( - 212.122.40.241) on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 07:22 pm:
>>She will understand when Russia will join Nato.
It will be sooner than expected.

Really? Do you know something we don't, Fred?

o.k. when
how about anti-american pluralistic crap 🙂

Seriously what is the difference between Nato and UN.They seem to have blended into one.

Executed Britons beaten in snake-infested cell

Hostage who was held with kidnapped engineers in Chechnya tells their families and police how they were tortured twice a day

By Andrew Buncombe


28 June 2000

Four engineers who were executed in Chechnya were kept in scorpion-infested cells, starved, pistol-whipped and forced to watch videos of other captives' brutal murders.

Magomed Chaguchiev, a 60-year-old academic from Dagestan, who was held with the men for almost a month before he was released, met the men's families yesterday.

Before the meeting with relatives at the Foreign Office in London, Mr Chaguchiev was interviewed by officers from the Metropolitan Police, whose inquiry into the killings is still in progress. He also agreed to sign an affidavit which solicitors acting for the victims' families intend to use in an action against Granger Telecom, the Surrey-based company which employed three of the men.

Until now, there have been few details about the final days of Peter Kennedy, 46, from Orpington in South London, Rudolf Petschi, 42, from Devon, Darren Hickey, 26, from Thames Ditton in Surrey and New Zealand-born Stanley Shaw, 58, from Addlestone in Surrey.

All four were kidnapped in Chechnya in October 1998 while working on a £190m contract to install telecommunications equipment. Their severed heads were found a month later. An inquest last year concluded that it was impossible to say exactly why the men had been killed.

Yesterday, in his first full media interview, Mr Chaguchiev said: "Twice a day we would be beaten. Once in the morning and once in the evening. Especially Peter, and Rudolf who could speak Russian. For a toilet there was one bucket for seven of us. There was also a bucket of water for drinking. They might give us some bread and onions. We [Mr Chaguchiev had been kidnapped with his son] were told not to share it with the British but we did. For this we were beaten." He said the men were beaten in front of him – with fists, boots and pistol butts.

Mr Shaw was the only one who escaped the beatings. Mr Kennedy sometimes had a gun put to his head. The conditions were cramped and their cell was overrun with rats, scorpions and snakes. Mr Chaguchiev, who believes he spent 28 days with the men, said they took it in turns to scare off the vermin while the others slept.

"The one I spoke to most was the interpreter [Mr Petschi]. He was talking all the time about his wife and how much in love with her he was.

"Peter said he had a 21-year-old daughter who he was trying to buy an apartment for. The youngest was telling us about his father's pub. He said it was the best in London and had the best beer in London. I was invited to come and taste the beer if we got out. These people were really honourable. We were talking about meeting up and having dinner."

Mr Chaguchiev also recalled the regular telephone conversations Mr Petschi was forced to make to Granger Telecom in order to plead for a ransom payment. "He said that during the conversation he was beaten with the handle of a pistol to make him ask for money. At first it was $10, then $8m and then $6m. The last time he spoke he seemed upset and kept silent for one and a half days. He said he could not find the money to pay the ransom."

Mr Chaguchiev said the men were also forced to watch videos of other hostages being beheaded. "Each was separately shown this and told that this was their future. I was told that I was next to be beheaded but my wife and friends managed to pay a ransom and I was released." The families of the three Granger employees are pursuing legal proceedings against the company claiming it was negligent in the "proper care of its employees".

The families believe the men could have been saved if Granger had heeded the request of their kidnapped staff about the way the ransom be handled. Solicitors acting for the family of Peter Kennedy, who was contracted by BT, are also considering legal action.

Granger have previously said it was optimistic that negotiations to release the men would be successful and it was acting under advice from security experts.

Darren Hickey's uncle Michael Mullen said Mr Chaguchiev had filled in some details of the men's last days. He said: "It was useful to meet him but there are still a lot of questions that remain unanswered."

Chechens holding 200 kidnap victims

By Patrick Cockburn in Moscow


28 June 2000

The Russian invasion of Chechnya last October curtailed but did not end kidnappings. According to one recent estimate, some 200 kidnap victims are still being held.

The kidnappings took place right across the north Caucasus and into southern Russia, but the victims usually ended up being held in a cellar in Chechnya itself.

At their height, almost all Chechen officials were involved to a greater or lesser degree in the kidnap business, which was one of the few sources of money in the republic.

Although the kidnapping of foreigners made the headlines, most of those who were seized were Chechens whose captors demanded small amounts of money. Other targets were young Russian soldiers, often kidnapped far from Chechnya. They might have no money, but the kidnappers would demand a ransom from the provinces from which they came.

Russian checkpoints on the borders of Chechnya have now disrupted the kidnap business, making it difficult, though not impossible, to move captives around. The Russians also switched off the mobile phone system in Chechnya last year, making it impossible for kidnappers to telephone to demand money.