By Kim Arx ( - 192.65.184.131) on Sunday, March 19, 2000 - 03:37 pm:

>Igor,

>Try Turkey, Mount Ararat, I believe.
>Kim

Mt. Ararat is in Turkish-Occupied Western Armenia.

By Kim Arx ( - 192.65.184.131) on Sunday, March 19, 2000 - 06:25 am:

>Dear Antonio,

>1) You are using the guise of Human rights, EU
>law,and semi-rational arguement to voice what
>is no more than hate and racism.

Not at all. First of all, the rights of men are not important, but for the rights of God are. Your accusation is standard anti-Catholic slander from intolerant bigot Liberal supremicists.

> 2)Anyone who clings to religion as you do, is
>seriously lacking in other areas in their life.

Anyone who lacks religion is an empty shell of a human being who has nothing to cling to except fair-weather friends and corruptible wealth.

>I sense that you may have been damaged by
>life's cruelty, felt lost and alone and turned to
>religion for security.

Life's cruelty has only served to purify me as gold is purified in fire. Anyone who has the true religion will have security, but those without the true religion are indeed alone and lost, and life's cruelties only serve to destroy the irreligious.

>3)Your grasp of European history is limited,I
>suggest you read more extensively on the
>Nazi-period. (particularly the role played by the
>catholic church in rounding up Jews in
>Germany and Austria). If you understood more
>about fascism, you might realise that you have
>simular views.

Are you trying to imply that you are some sort of expert on European history? Your insinuation against the Catholic Church is pure slander. In fact, the Chief Rabbi of Rome publically thanked ope Pius XII for his efforts in saving hundreds of thousands of Jews, and the historical truth is that the Roman Catholic Church saved more Jews than all the world's Jewish organizations collectively did. That is why the Chief Rabbi converted to Catholicism and took the name Eugenius, the birthname of Pius XII.

>4) Terms such as "hell" and "the devil" are no
>more than superstition to me.

If you choose to deceive yourself then that is your problem. When you burn in hell for all eternity you will curse yourself for not accepting the truth when you had the chance.

> There is nothing in the "spew" you have
>posted on this board that would convince me
>otherwise.

Judging by your other foul-mouthed posts I would say that you are the one spewing. If you don't wish to be convinced that is your problem. Be that as it may, in the fires of hell you will be convinced, but it will be too late to do you any good.

> It has been through being exposed to different
>cultures and beliefs as a child that I came to
>this conclusion. I learned from people who are
>wiser and more tolerant then you.

The wisdom of the world is folly to God, and the wisdom of God is folly to the world.

What you tolerate will proliferate. We see what your multi-culturalist pluralist atheist agnostic hedonist world produces. A tree is judged by its fruit. The cultures and beliefs that you respect have produced a deranged world of violence, rape, drugs, vice, exploitation, oppression, genocide etc. You can't accuse the Catholic Church of being behind any of this. The Catholic Church has been virtually eliminated off the face of the earth since Vatican II, which happened 40 years ago.

> What strikes me is that although I could get on
>with all of them, their religion was a barrier to
>them getting on with each other.

Yet you respect them and refer to them as "wise". What you admire is garbage.

> I respect personal conviction, but not the bully
>tactics you are employing here.

Personal conviction is worthless unless it is based on the true Faith. Your accusation against me constitutes slander. In raising your slanderous accusations against me and the Catholic Church, it is you who are guilty of bullying tactics. In light of this, your self-righteous pseudo-sanctimonious pretenses to respectability and honor ring hollow.

>Kim

Antonio

Igor, yet more cut&paste, but here goes:

"After WorldNetDaily was the first news organization to expose the fraudulent news production, two CNN producers were fired and,eventually, CNN veteran reporter Peter Arnett also was ousted. In that case, Retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Perry Smith quit his long-time job as a military adviser to CNN."

So in effect one news agency exposed another, and could back it's claim with facts.
Good!
Kim

Igor, read the spew above, and then tell me:
What has religion got to do with it?

"SO CALLED BRAVE MUSLIMS WAS AGAIN SEIZE HOSTAGES

---

ZAMBOANGA, Philippines:
Islamic rebels raided two schools and seized dozens of students and several school officials in the southern Philippines on Monday, the military and police said.

The Philippines and Chechnia are
two distinct conflicts, based
on "political" domination of one
group over another.
The fact that they are both
Islamic is irrelevant.
I believe you know that.
Kim

Hey guys, guess what!

I'm an "intolerant bigot Liberal supremicist."
(Intolerant... Liberal....hum)

Antonio, apart from being Oxymoronic, you
are getting really tedious.

"Yet you respect them and refer to them as
"wise". What you admire is garbage."
Does that include the Nuns at the Catholic
girls school I attended in Belgium, Antonio?
Or will you make an exception for them?

Re Germany: 4 years of study? That may not
make me an expert, but at least I know to
compare like with like.
The politico-socio climate of the 20th century
differed somewhat from that of the Middle Ages.

Get off my case, I don't want to be your
Anti-Christ today.
Kim

Kissie,

I agree that article was petulent, but
the point was that LM have done it before.

I have a few questions:

1)If it was not for the emotive term "Genocide",
Would you agree that those on all sides in the Bosnia conflict who commited crimes against civilians should be held accountable for what they did. Should ordinary people who had little or no say in the events taking place, have redress?

2) If so, who should hold them accountable?

Re: the Deitrich article.
Why did he publish it with LM, a magazine with
a circulation of 10.000 people in England?

If you were going to take on a major news-org.,
wouldn't you make damned sure, you could back
yourself up?

Isn't that the first thing every student learns,
you can say what you want, but back it up with facts? It was not only in court that they"were prevented" or unable to provide evidence.
The financial times was forced to retract it's coverage, because of lack of evidence.

-If I claimed the world was flat, fair enough I'd
be laughed out of the building.
-If I claimed I could prove it, fine people would
look at my "facts" and decide for themselves.
-If I were to claim, that the earth was flat, that I could prove it, and that there was a deliberate conspriracy amoungst leading scientists to cover this up. I believe I may well be asked to substanciate my claim or forever keep my peace.

Why aren't they contesting the ruling?
Kim

One last post....

I think Gonzo asked, what would happen,
if someone suing for Libel, lost their case.
Well , they would have to pay up, yes.

For an example of a Libel case that went the
other way see:
a) Hamilton v The Guardian
b) Hamilton v Al Fayed.

(Hamilton was a conservative MP who was accused
by the Guadian and Al Fayed(owner of Harrods)of
accepting cash to ask questios in parlement.
He sued for Libel and lost)

Kim

So I lied....

Kissie, this is an extract from a
Noam Chomsky article posted by "John"
on the Yugo board. I think this is
something you have mentioned before.
(sources!!)

The Serb National Assembly Resolution, though reported at once on the wire services, has remained a virtual secret. There has been little indication even of its existence, let alone its contents. The Resolution condemned the withdrawal of the OSCE monitors and called on the United Nations and OSCE to facilitate a diplomatic settlement through negotations "toward the reaching of a political agreement on a wide-ranging autonomy for[Kosovo], with the securing of a full equality of all citizens and ethnic communities and with respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Serbia and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [FRY]." It raised the possibility of an "international presence" of a "size and character" to be determined to carry out the "political accord on the self-rule agreed and accepted by the representatives of all national communities living in [Kosovo]." FRY agreement "to discuss the scope and character of international presence in[Kosovo] to implement the agreement to be accepted in Rambouillet" had been formally conveyed to the negotiators on 23 February, and announced by the FRY at a press conference the same day (4).Whether these proposals had any substance we cannot know, since they were never considered, and remain unknown.

Perhaps even more striking is that the Rambouillet ultimatum, though universally described as the peace proposal, was also kept from the public, particularly the provisions that were apparently introduced in the final moments of the Paris peace talks in March after Serbia had expressed agreement with the main political proposals, and that virtually guaranteed rejection. Of particular importance are the terms of the implementation Appendices that accorded to NATO the right of "free and unrestricted passage and unimpeded access throughout the FRY including associated airspace and territorial waters", without limits or obligations or concern for the laws of the country or the jurisdiction of its authorities, who are, however, required to follow NATO orders "on a priority basis and with all appropriate means" (Appendix B).

The Annex was kept from journalists covering the Rambouillet and Paris talks, says Robert Fisk: "The Serbs say they denounced it at their last Paris press conference - an ill-attended gathering at the Yugoslav Embassy at 11pm on 18 March". Serb dissidents who took part in the negotiations allege that they were given these conditions on the last day of the Paris talks and that the Russians did not know about them. These provisions were not made available to the British House of Commons until 1 April, the first day of the Parliamentary recess, a week after the bombing started (5).

Kim

OHAYA, KISAKO!
the greetings of a drizzly dawn for you!

hi kim,
busy morning, i see...heh
=
methinks you've been most tolerant of antonio's
silly, sanctimonious admonishments that you'll
'burn in hell'. ffc of that.
no heaven
no hell
no reward
no punishment.

but some folks feel the need to inflict their
'spew' on others; they're gratified by their
imagined superiority over them.

they, alas, must take their gratification where
they can invent it.

your pizza and girlfriend still await you
somewhere in this world, tony-boy; you would
benefit from finding them.
as would the rest of us.
===
ps> kisako:
a genuine lol from me last night. great stuff.

Guten Morgen,
L'menexe.

If I'm "pseudo-sanctimonious", does that mean
I pretend to be Sanctimonious, but really
I know that I'm not?
I'm confused or is that Confusius????
Tony should really relax and try Buddhism.

Sorry its raining.
Kim

Ìîñêâà ïîçîðíàÿ ïûëàåò,
ñòîëèöà ðóññêèõ àëêàøåé.
Íàðîä âàø ìåðçíåò îò ãîëîäà
è òàì, è çäåñü.
Õîòü ìàëî íàñ, ìû âåäü ÷å÷åíöû.
Ïðåêðàñíî çíàåøü áîÿ êëè÷.
Íå ïîêîðèòü òåáå ÷å÷åíöåâ.
Ñåáå øàêàëîâ çàáåðè.

È ÷åñòü, äîñòîèíñòâî ìû çíàåì -
ìû âåäü ðîñëè äàâíî â ãîðàõ.
À ïðåññà, - ÷òî æå òû áîëòàåøü,
÷òî ïîêîðèë òû âåñü Êàâêàç.
Çà÷åì æå âðåøü æå òû, ïàäëà?
Çà÷åì íåïðàâäó ãîâîðèøü?
Âåñü ìèð äàâíî óæ óáåäèëñÿ,
÷òî òû ×å÷íþ íå ïîêîðèë.

Ñåáå òû ìåñòà íå íàõîäèøü
è ñìåðòè æäåøü äàâíûì-äàâíî.
È êàê ñîáàêà òû ñäîõíåøü,
è â ïüÿíîì âèäå òû ïîìðåøü.
×å÷åíöû çäåñü æèâóò è æèëè.
È äàëüøå áóäåò òî÷íî òàê.
Íå ïîìèíàé ìåíÿ òû ëèõîì,
ïðîòèâíûé òû àëêàø.

Ðàñïàä Ðîññèè îòìå÷àåì,
÷åòûðå ãîäà êàê ïðîøëî.
Âåñü ìèð óæå óáåäèëñÿ,
×å÷íÿ äåðæàòü Ðîññèÿ ÷òî?
Ðîäíàÿ òû ìîÿ È÷êåðèÿ,
òàê ñóùåñòâóé æå òûùó ëåò.
È òû Äæîõàð, òû ñëîâî ÷åñòè,
òîáîé ãîðäèòñÿ âåñü íàðîä.

Ãëàâà ×å÷íè Äæîõàð Äóäàåâ
â êðàþ ðîäíîì ìÿòåæ âîçãëàâèë.
Íå÷åñòíóþ îí Ðóñü îñòàâèë
è óëüòèìàòóì èì íàïðàâèë:
"×å÷íÿ - ñâîáîäíàÿ ñòðàíà!
Âñåâûøíèì ïðàâà åé äàíà.
È õî÷åò æèòü ñî âñåìè â ìèðå,
íî òîëüêî â ñîáñòâåííîé êâàðòèðå".

Íî ðóñ íà äåëî êîñî ñìîòðèò,
âñå âîéñêî íà ×å÷íþ âåäåò.
Íåëüçÿ íàì îòïóñòèòü ×å÷íþ,
âåäü ïîòåðÿåì âñþ ðîäíþ
è Ðóñü âåëèêîþ íå ñòàíåò,
âåñü ìèð áîÿòüñÿ ïåðåñòàíåò,
öåíà âåäü ãðîø òîãäà íàñòàíåò,
íàðîä çà ïðàâî ñâîé âîññòàíåò.

Ïîøëè â àòàêó ñàìîëåòû,
ïîâñþäó âîþò âåðòîëåòû,
áîìáÿò è ñ íåáà, è ñ çåìëè,
÷å÷åíöåâ â ÿðîñòü ïðèâåëè.
 ðóèíû ãîðîä ïðåâðàùàþò,
áëîêàäû ãîëîä ïðåäðåêàþò.
Âàì íå ñëîìèòü ÷å÷åíñêèé äóõ -
ÿ ãîâîðþ âàì ýòî âñëóõ.

Îãîíü Ðîññèÿ îòêðûâàåò.
Áîðüáó ïîâñþäó íà÷èíàåò.
Íî Ãðîçíûé íå ñäàåòñÿ èì.
Ñòîëèöó äðóæíî îòñòîèì.
 íåðàâíîé ñõâàòêå ãîðîä ñäàëè
è îòñòóïàòü ïðèêàç îòäàëè,
íî ïðåêðàùàòü âîéíó íå ñòàëè
è â ãîðû ðóñàêîâ çàãíàëè.

Äîëáèëè ðóñàêîâ â ãîðàõ,
ëåòåë îò íèõ è ïóõ, è ïðàõ.
È íå áûëî îò íèõ êîíöà,
òîãäà ïîñëàëè ìû ãîíöà.
Ãîíåö íàì âåñòî÷êó ïðèíåñ,
÷òî ýñòàôåòó îí äîíåñ.
Òîãäà ãåðîè-ìóñóëüìàíå
ðåøèëè ñúåõàòü â ãîñòè ê Âàíå.

Ïðèåõàâ ê Âàíå â äîì ðîäíîé,
îòêðûëè òàì äæèãèòû áîé.
Êòî ïðîòèâ âñòàë, âñåõ ïîóáèâàëè,
à ìèðíûõ ìû â ðîääîì çàãíàëè.
Òîãäà ïðàâèòåëüñòâî Ðóñè
ñîçâàëî âîéñêî èç Ðóñè
è ñòàëî äåëàòü â òðè êîëüöà,
îòáèòü íàðîä ñâîé íå ñìîãëà.

Ñîçâàëî âñå ñî âñåõ êîíöîâ,
ïîâñþäó ðàçîñëàâ ãîíöîâ.
Íî ñòàë îðåõ íå ïî çóáàì,
íå ñòàëî ãðåõ õëåáíóòü èñëàì.
Õîòåëè âçÿòü ×å÷íþ èçìîðîì,
ïðèïîìíèâ ñêàçêó ñ ×åðíîìîðîì.
Äîñòàíåì ìû è ñ íåáà âàñ
è îòîìñòèì âàì âñå çà íàñ.

Òóò ×åðíîìûðäèí ñ òîëñòîé áóäêîé
ðàññåëñÿ â òåëåôîííîé áóäêå:
"Øàìèëü, íå ïîðòè ìíå êàðüåðó,
ïîâåðü òû íà ñëîâî ïðåìüåðó.
Çà êðóãëûé ñòîë âñåõ ïîñàæó,
îò âîéñê ×å÷íþ îñâîáîæó.
È äåëî ïîâåðíóëîñü òàê,
Øàìèëü âåðíóëñÿ â ñâîé Çàíäàê.

Ïîøëè òóò ñïîðíûé äåáàòû,
ïðîñèëè ñäàòü èì àâòîìàòû.
Ðîññèÿ êàê ëèñà õèòðà,
íî âîëê íà õèòðîñòü íå ïîøëà.
È ñòàëè ãíóòü òî òàê, òî ñÿê:
"Ìû ðàçáîìáèì âåñü âàø êîñòÿê!
Áóäåøü ïóãàòü òû íàñ, áîñÿê?"
Àñëàí, îáèäåâøèñü, âñêî÷èë,
ïî ìîðäå ãåíåðàëà ïàïêîé çàìî÷èë.

Èäóò áîè. Âñå áóäòî ñîí. Ñòàëüíûå ïòèöû â íåáå êðóæàò.
Âäðóã ãäå-òî âçðûâ. È ÷åé-òî ñòîí. Åìó íè÷òî óæ íå ïîìîæåò.
Âäðóã ðåçêèé ñâèñò. Óñïåëè ëå÷ü. Êîâàðíû çàëïû ìèíîìåòîâ.
Êàê áû äîðîãó ïåðåñå÷ü. Íàäî çàëå÷ü îò ñàìîëåòà.
Ãîðèò-ïûëàåò íàø ýòàæ. Íå âûéòè íàì. Áüåò ñíàéïåð â íàñ.
Âäðóã øêâàë îãíÿ. Âñå ñìîëêëî âðàç. Êòî íàñ ïðèêðûë?
Ãåëàåâñêèé ñïåöíàç.

Îñòàâèâ äîì, ìû îòîøëè. Íî íî÷üþ ìû îïÿòü âåðíåìñÿ.
Ñïåöèàëüíî òàíêè ïðîïóñòèòü. Íà íèõ îáúÿâëåíà îõîòà.
È áóäåò äîëãî äëèòüñÿ áîé. Âåçäå ñëûøíû ãðàíàòîìåòû.
Ãîðÿùèé òàíê ïðîáîðîíèë òðóïû ãîðÿùèå ïåõîòû.
Íî ÷òî-òî øóì. Äâà òàíêà â òûë. Çàðÿäîâ íåò. Èññÿê çàïàñ.
Âäðóã ÿðêèé âçðûâ âñå îçàðèë. Êòî èõ ïîäáèë?
Ãåëàåâñêèé ñïåöíàç.

Îñòàâèâ ãîðîä, ìû óøëè. Âîéíû íåëåãêàÿ äîðîãà.
Âðàãè ê Øàòîþ ïîäîøëè. Çäåñü áóäåò ñëàâíàÿ îõîòà.
Äåðæàëè äîëãî öåìçàâîä. Íî ñëèøêîì íåðàâíû èõ ñèëû.
È íàì ïðèêàçàíî îòõîä. È âîëêè â ãîðû îòñòóïèëè.
Ãëóáèííîé áîìáîé ñàìîëåò. Êóäà íè ãëÿíü - ïîâñþäó áüåò.
È âåðòîëåòû ãäå íè ãëÿíü. Ñî âñåõ ñòîðîí âñå áüþò ïî íàì.
Ñó-29, ðåçêî âçâûâ, èäåò â ïèêå, èäåò íà íàñ.
Âäðóã ðåçêèé çàëï. Äûì ïîâàëèë. Íî êòî æå ñáèë?
Ãåëàåâñêèé ñïåöíàç.}

bal:
yes, yes, very colorful.
but, um....