igor:
yeah, that's been established;

Kim :

Ref your post on our Ambassadors to Europe (Armed Forces) and how they have distorted your opinions on America and Americans.

These "Ambassadors" as you refer to them were in Europe for protection against communism. I am figuring you know history. They were the Marines, the Army and the Airforce in a state of WAR - and not a tourist offices.

They were the front line and last line of defense. Their lives were in constant danger as war seemed imminent at that time - the enemy was only a few yards away trained to kill them. They were tough and hardened soldiers who would and must do the same. Their mentality was one of survival and not pleasing the locals. So you can excuse them for being a little on "Edge"

I am guessing now as I wasn't there but Europeans were not exactly the perfect home cooked pie hosts. Judging from your attitude put forth in your message it was probably a popular one. Some of that wide spread negativity to the Americans being there would have surely managed to rub off on the soldiers who were in a foreign land, risking their lives in order that you can carry out your daily routine and have "Farm Parties" on the weekends.

Could there have been a backlash?

Like I've said before on this board you live and enjoy the freedom that we provide only to question the manner it's been provided to you.

Since Hindsight is 20/20 kindly re-think your attitude towards Americans and lets show some gratification for the young men and women whom risked and lost their lives protecting you and your families.

As far as visiting the U.S. that’s entirely your choice. But that's like not visiting Rome during the Roman Empire or experiencing Turkey during the Ottoman Empire because you don't like carpets, and the same applies to all the other great civilizations of time.

Tusk, tusk, Allam.,

If those guys were there to protect us, the might have kept in shape!! They came to Germany and other countries, with exactly the attitude you have expressed above. Tell me how did this involve
placing the Military Police outside a German school with Semi-Automatic weapons in Western Europe. Why did they continually harass the local German youth, who were on a good night out in their own country? Why was it that everytime someone from the local American High school got caught with pot, this was "obviously" cause we Germans and "local Nationals" had led them astray.
(You are talking hard nuts from the Bronx, being led astray by German provincial town kids.)

The reason they were there is not disputed, and all honor to those who did try to get on with the locals, but at the same time they were let down by the behaviour of the majority.

A woman from South Carolina moved in next door to us, on one occation our dog managed to get into her garden, so she started shouting rascist abuse at us. (Then she realised we were English and piped down!) On another occasion I was driving through the centre of Heidelberg with my parents, someone in the car in front of us threw a cokecan out of the window. The little MP stood there on duty, whirled round and my 6 year old sister, found herself looking down the barrel of a semi-automatic. The rascism of these people was both explicit and implicit, even towards the African Americans within their own ranks, and yet they thought they would lecture the local population on the evils of national socialism.

Man, you have no idea how much they were hated by us "local Nationals" (That's like saying, there are just too many nationalities for us to cope with in Europe, therfore we will lump you all into one big group- what a ••••••• insult).

Luckily, since then, I have met some wonderful people from the States, who seem to be a completely different breed, but initial impressions are still hard to overcome.
Maybe its down to British reserve, maybe I just have a different mindset, but I'm not sure that I would feel comfortable in the US- Too big, too loud, too fast, too dangerous???- The way you bring your children up is another thing, they seem like obnoxiuos brats, who should learn to have a little bit more respect for others and not be so self-centred- but like I said different mindset.

I guess you can't blame Americans for their attitudes towards non-americans, they are the biggest kids on the block, and have been taught that their way is best - this tends to piss us Europeans off- after all our societies have developed over a period of Milennia, not a couple of centuaries!!

With regards America protecting us from the Russians...Those nice folks were just Canon-fodder, like the European Armed forces.
The third world war if it had happened at the time, would have been fought in Europe. We in western Europe were America's buffer zone. And although there were detailed plans to evacuate American Forces non-combat personel, there were no plans to evacuate the local population. Why do you
think the disarmement movement was strongest in West Germany???

Kim,

These are not Choirboys - This is an army on the brink of war. Can you possibly fathom the situation.

I am not arguing your point. No question there was abuses of power. but you can't base your opinion on Americans exclusively on it's armed forces behavior - that's not right. Like you say in your message - you can't lump everyone together, it's an insult.

There is no such thing as a buffer zone. That's what makes Nuclear War so dangerous. Nuclear warheads would reach Washington a full 15-min. after reaching London over the pole. So don't kid yourself with "Evac plans" since there would be no place to evacuate to - it would probably be safer in Portugal than being anywhere in the States at that time.

And what does Tusk, tusk mean - LOL

"Their lives were in constant danger as war seemed imminent at that time..."

If their lives in a prosperous West-German city
were in danger, then so was mine......

The only reason their lives would have been in danger, was because of the colesterol packed junk food they consumed- shiped in specially and sold at the local PX!!!

"on "Edge"- to paraphrase a popular film,~"They were wound way to tight for Heidelberg, proberbly
wound way too tight for the Bronx"!!!- hihihi

They had such a tough time, what with free skiing in Garmish Parkenkirschen. Purpose built little Americas, with multi-cinema complexes and all the comforts of home.
They were most likely on edge cause they couldn't
be arsed to learn German and therefore lived in a constant state of Paranoia, thinking we were talking about them.

Look, I'm English, our forces were out there too, they also died in the second world war, they were equally unpopular around Koln, but I managed to fit into the local society, learn German, make friends. My Parents were working at a German University, we were there on an EEC exchange programme, we had nothing whatsoever to do with the Armed Forces, and yet the US -army seemed to be all-pervasive in our lives. Not only did we have to deal with the German bureaucrats, but the American ones as well. And this in 1984????????>Grin<

All american,

I'm well aware that these were not choir boys,
and that was exactly the point. This was a quiet little town in Germany and they acted like we were the enemy. They were heavyhanded and probably should have been stationed closer to the border.

The whole point in Germany was that this was an ongoing occupation- punishment if you like - I as
a Brit, supposedly on the same side, got lumped into the "re-education-mentality" that existed there at the time, and resented it.

I have said that I have since revised my opinion of Americans, having met them at University etc.
However, I still have this gut feeling that the US is not a place I would feel comfortable in.
Based on TV, Hollywood if you like, but that is the image you guys seem to proudly portray to the rest of the world. I find the image portrayed horrendous, you are used to it perhaps.

I loved South America, exactly because I met people who were interested in me as I am, not trying to reeducate me, or psyco-analyse me, or
expecting me to get loud or be ignored, which is the attitude I have experienced from most Americans. It's like"entertain us,we're waiting"
yuch.

Kim

Yeah OK Then,

They were there to go skiing and enjoy the beautiful German winters.

Life is a beach! LMAO.

I am glad I have helped in re-educating you on Americans. LOL

S. America - Life is definitely a beach!

Basicly, yes, these were army professionals,

They had their regular training sessions, three weeks a year they went on joint manouvers with the European forces causing Chaos on the Autobahns ( and invariably getting lost!!!). These people had usually been stationed in more critical areas in the world, and were relocated to Germany to unwind.

They were in no immediate danger!

Russia and the States both had buffer zones in Europe. They were quite content to fight it out there. Don't be so naiv- I have that from the people who were stationed there, they weren't too happy about it either! The whole thing was about posturing!!

Who the hell, do you think you are.
Here's me pouring out my personal experience, trying to explain to you reasonably, an attitude held by most Europeans, to help you understand.
All you are ••••••• interested in is scoring cheap points.
You haven't got a clue, what you are talking about and apparently you are not even American.

You think you are being o so clever, apparently wupping some kid's back side. All you are doing is making a complete arse of yourself.
YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY FRIENDS HERE!!
•••• OFF, WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR STUPIDITY.
you have nothing to say and your posts are based on half truths and some propaganda you have been fed.

Kim

top o' the mornin' to ye, mum!

6:22 post = well said.

Morning L'menexe,

Sorry, about the Anti-American stance, I'm trying
to overcome it, but certain people seem determined to prove it to be valid over and over and....

Kim

OHAYA, KISAKO!

the greetings of the =
no. wait.
it's a crummy rainy day.
how about a rerun from a nicer day?
==
OHAYA, KISAKO!
the greetings of this lovely dawn for you!
[wink]
0546
==

hi kim:

6:46 post =

the FAKE isn't american anyway, so say what thou wilt to the (expletive) (expletive).

yes, mum, your sincere efforts went for naught where the FAKE is concerned. a shame, perhaps, but no surprise.

waste no more energy on him, luv.

MARY, MArY, quite contrairy, how does you garden grow?

With silver bells and cockel shells and the rich manure that's known as AllAmerican's brains.

Good afternoon KIMMY babes. I was thinking about how lovely your dinner must of been last night. How thoughtful and romantic of you significant other to arrange a candleight dinner.

Side note, there are some guys (who I shall not name) who considers a romantic dinner to a Big Mac and order of fries from the drive-up and then expect a jump in the back seat for a quicky. Our men believe in "Wine, Women and Song." Unfortunitly, most of our poor American sisters are confronted with their man's logic of "Beer the Old Lady and TV." Must really be tough for them. They are women and they are tough, maybe this is why so many of them are so big and stong.

Heard through the grapevine that a new American Football Leauge is forming. Called the AFML..American Female Monster Leauge. Proof enough of the saying that "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW"