Prologue: "eto pizdetz", podumal Abu.."da, eto ya", skazal Pizdetz, rasstegivaia shirinku..

Six rebels were killed and one taken prisoner as a result of a clash outside Gudermes.
The Russian side did not suffer any losses, presidential aide Sergei Yastrzhembsky told Interfax on Tuesday. The fight took place south of the Gudermes mountain range, he said.
Yastrzhembsky also confirmed that well-known Chechen field commander Abu Movsayev was killed "a few days ago as a result of a federal special operation in the Argun Gorge."
He described Movsayev as "one of the most outspoken separatists" and said that the operation to eliminate the terrorist leaders will be continued. "Several separatist leaders have been killed over the past ten days," said Yastrzhembsky.

Saladin

" It is almost impossible for a western thinker today to accept the fact that there may be a meeting ground between religion and science. "

You can believe in God and practice a religion and be a scientist.
But there is definetly no meeting ground between religion and science except philosophic. Religion doesn't help science and science doesn't help religion. If a study is influenced by religious beleives, it's not science.
We, westerners, understood it at the time of the Renaissance, 6 or 7 Centuries ago.
But, you, muslims or should I say islamists since there are rational muslims, still didnt' catch it. Or you did once upon a time, but now your culture is drowning down to the black age.
You speech is colored by bigotry and idolatry.
You can't say something without shouting the name of Allah, as doing so would bring some credit to your assertions.
This is not science. It's fanatism.
In the Middle Age in Europe, scientist had to add
some God-most-High phrases to please the clergy. You just start to do the same now in the heart of the electronic age.
____________________________________________________

Supervodka

You are laughing at the misery of people.

Look at your third world MUSLIM countries and look what they are dying from!

Good laugh!!!

Mary,
I'd like to wrestle with ya! Are ya still as sexy as ever and clean shaven as well!!! Kidding Ha Ha...

By Hairy Mary ( - 163.179.204.151) on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 05:17 pm:
>TO ALL THE WIMPS OF THIS BOARD...I bench press
>160kg and I'm calling you out to the parking lot
>after I shave. Just as I thought, you homo's
>ain't so tough, just big mouths used for??
>Whatever

Hairy Mary: a transsexual lesbian Persian with an inferiority complex trying to anesthetize her inner pain by venting hysterical rage on males.
Enough bombast Hairy Mary, just calm down and deal with your problems.

salam alleikhum, ass'allam

To Dimitri

"maybe not brainwashed, but most defenitely influenced a heck a lot. You were born in Uzbekistan, were you not? If it is so, it would be absolutely obvious why you feel the way you feel. "
*************************************************
My friend, It is very clear that you do not know the mentality of muslims. In Islam all muslims are equal, there is no difference between the chechenyan muslims and any other muslims. It might be a big surprise for you that I was not even born in Asia. I am Egyptian, born and raised in Egypt, and just moved to the states 2 years ago. Now, what will you say ?

Very interesting summation of western reporting and how they manipulate the public.

---

http://www.swans.com/

NATO Media In Serbia Closed
by Andrej Tisma
Writing from Serbia (5-18-00)
www.tenc.net [emporers-clothes]

I don't understand how can anybody have an illusion that media paid by NATO (U. S. A. State Department) can be "independent" and "free". Those media are just instruments in the proven NATO hegemonism, interventionism and fabrication of conflicts. One of the first things NATO did for "democratization" of media in Yugoslavia was the bombing of state TV and radio stations and transmitters, while the Western media were all visible in "totalitarian" Yugoslavia.

The Yugoslav "independent" and "free" media are openly sponsored by NATO and just transmitted the NATO propaganda before and during the bombing of Yugoslavia. They broadcasted uncritically the Jamie Shea type of lies, disinformation and propaganda, the same lies we could see in CNN, BBC, Sky News, Free Europe etc. They shamelessly broadcast NATO threats before the bombing aiming to induce panic in our people and Army. Also during the bombing they gave false numbers of casualties and effects of bombing. Do you still remember the "free", "independent" and "truthful" information about 100,000 killed Albanian civilians, about "Racak massacre", about 200 destroyed Serb tanks, etc.? By repeating this stuff, the "free" Yugoslav media took part in the NATO aggression. But they were still left in existence by the Yugoslav "authoritarian" regime till now.

Now when those media started to call on Yugoslav people for an "uprising", "armed resistance", killing of democratically elected state leaders and violent change of political system, they had to be shut down. Everything is clear if we know that Studio B was led by the Serbian Renewal Movement and its leader Vuk Draskovic, who after the criminal and disastrous bombing of Yugoslavia kissed the bloody hands of Madeleine Albright. NATO couldn't conquer Serbia militarily, and it wants now to destroy it from inside, through such instrumental mercenaries. It is obvious that the call for uprising by Draskovic and Studio B is the continuation of NATO aggression on Serbia and its system, and that Studio B and other likely "free" media were just NATO's instruments to provoke inner conflicts and civil war in Serbia. That is why they had to be shut down. They were shut down according to Yugoslav Constitution, where nobody has right to call publicly for violence and civil war, and no media can transmit such a call uncritically and repeatedly from day to day, as Studio B did. AT

Kazakhs Find Heroin in Tajik Ambassador's Car

ALMATY, May 23, 2000 -- (Reuters) Kazakhstan's National Security Committee (KNB) said on Monday it had seized 62 kg (136 lb) of heroin and large amounts of foreign currency from a car belonging to Tajikistan's ambassador in Almaty.

"On 21 May, a special operation by KNB officers revealed one of the main methods for transporting drugs from Tajikistan into Kazakhstan," the KNB's Almaty division said in a statement.

It said two cars, one of which belonged to the Tajik ambassador to Kazakhstan, had been stopped outside Almaty and were found to have secret compartments containing drugs.

"In all, 62 kg of heroin, $54,000 in cash and a bank check for 1.2 million pounds sterling ($1.78 million) were found in the two cars," the statement said, adding that the search had been carried out in the presence of the ambassador and foreign ministry officials.

The estimated street value of the drugs is $1 million, the KNB said.

It said the consignment was to have been handed over to Tajikistan's trade representative at the embassy. Five Tajik nationals have been arrested but the KNB did not say if they were embassy workers.

Tajikistan's Foreign Ministry in Dushanbe refused to comment, but a source at the embassy in Almaty confirmed the find and said an investigation had been launched.

Tajikistan's proximity to Afghanistan, the source of half the world's opium, means the mountainous country is a conduit for drugs passing through the former Soviet Union to Europe.

The trade is a big temptation for many Tajiks, impoverished after the end of a 1992-97 civil war.

And to the decisions concerning Checynia consider.

8. For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ
Jesus for good works, which God prepared before
hand that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:8-10

To FredLe Savant Dingue

1- "You can believe in God and practice a religion and be a scientist. But there is definetly no meeting ground between religion and science except philosophic. Religion doesn't help science and science doesn't help religion. If a study is influenced by religious beleives, it's not science. We, westerners, understood it at the time of the Renaissance, 6 or 7 Centuries ago."

My friend, first I congratulate you for being decent in your dialogues in this board which is full of insults and misunderstanidng.

First, The true and divine religion must be in harmony with science and rational thinking. If a religion is said to be divine, it must not have any contradictions against science and rational thinking. Before I go ahead, let me remind you of something very important, HUMAN MIND HAS LIMITATIONS. Immanual Kant, the great german philosopher who is considered by most philosophical historians to be the most important philosopher in modern age, and may be the most important philisopher at all. Kant in his masterpiece "Critique of pure reason" could successuflly refute the doctrine of Hume, Locke and Berakly about our way of gaining knowledge and the law of cause and effect. Kant also could prove that human mind has limitations and we can not gain any thing from our search behind nature- metaphyscis-. Philosophy could not offer a lot to human race as it was based on abstractive way of thinking. Now, we have put all our trust in science, as experiment and mathimatical proof are the only convincing proof in our modern civilization. The question now, Does Islam declare against science ? Does Quraan have contradictions concerning modern science ?

And let us ask the same questions about Christianity. Let us go back to one of the great minds in our human civilization, Galilio Galile, the great italian physicit and mathimaticain. What happend when he declared that the earth was round ? What happend when Nikolay Coperinicus declared that the sun was the center of the earth ?
The church declared against both of them, and Galilio was confined at his home and was not allowed to meet any one. The church considered that to be agianst the holy bible. The Holy Bible can not go in harmony with science, I am so sorry to say that. That is why secularism is the main principle in the western civilization. Westerners think that religion is against science and free thinking and this idea is a natural result of the contradictions between the holy bible and science.

Now, let us go to Islam,or in precise let us go to Quran, Has this book any conradictions with science ? Does Quran declare against free thinking ? In the whole islamic history, you can not find an example like Galilo or Coperincus. When muslims were in spain, spain was the centre of science and knowledge, the language of science at that time was Arabic. "The law in medicin" which was written by Ibn Sinaa, was the main reference in Paris college. Muslims discoverd Zero, Al Khawarzmy was the great mathimatician in his age, the word algorithm is divided from his name. Ibn Alnafis discoverd blood cirulatioin - not William Harvy-. Ibn Khldon established the science of socilogy in his masterpiece "The introduction of Ibn Khaldon". Abo Baker Alrazy established the science of surgery in his great book "Al Hawy" and he was the first suregon to use lines in surgery. AL Edrisy established the science of Georgraphy in his book "Nozhat elmoshtak fi ekhtak alafak". If you want more details go to the book of the German orientalist Sigverid Honka "The sun of Arabs shines on the west". Islam was never agianst science and knowledge, Ibn Roshed was the best philosopher to explain the writings of Arsitotle. His books were translated to Latin. Scientists in both natural sciences and religious sciences were the stars of the islamci society. If you read any scientific book for any one of the previous scientists you will find the first sentence in that book "In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful". Why ? Because religion is not agianst science, on the contrary, Islam induces muslim to seek for knowledge wherever it was. The first word was inspired to Mohamed ( PBUH ) was "Read in the name of your Lord who created man". Our prophet Mohamed said "The scientists are the inheriters of prophets". Quran says "Those who know, do not equal those who do not know".

In modern age, a lot of people embraced Islam because they find a lot of scientific facts mentioned in the Quran. There is no time or space to discuss this long topic here, but if you want more details about that go to this site www.beconvinced.com. I will just mention one example here, Maurice Baucaille, a french surgeon who converted to Islam as he found that Quran is in full harmony with Embroyology. He wrote a book called "The bible, the Quran and Science". This book is translated to English. He made a comparison between the bible and Quran in terms of science. what was the result ? He converted to Islam.

Another example, Professor Keith Moore who is one of the world’s prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology in University of Toronto, Canada.
Moore says "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur’aan about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from Allah, or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered
until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of Allah."



Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the North Western University in Chicago in the United States of America. He says "Professor Simpson said: It follows, I think, that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion, but in fact religion can guide science by adding revelation to some traditional scientific approaches. That there exists statements in the Qur’aan shown by science to be valid, which supports knowledge in the Qur’aan having been derived from Allah"

Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the North Western University in Chicago in the United States of America. Professor Simpson said: It follows, I think, that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion, but in fact religion can guide science by adding revelation to some traditional scientific approaches. That there exists statements in the Qur’aan shown by science to be valid, which supports knowledge in the Qur’aan having been derived from Allah


Professor Palmer a scientist from the U.S.
"We need research into the history of early Middle Eastern oral traditions to know whether in fact such historical events have been reported. If there is no such record, it strengthens the belief that Allah transmitted through Muhammad bits of his knowledge that we have only discovered for ourselves in recent times. We look forward to a continuing dialogue on the topic of science in the Qur’aan in the context of geology. Thank you very much."


These are just few examples, in the site I mentioned above you will find more and more. Now, you think that muslims now are not civilized and modernized like Europe and USA because of their religion. You are right and wrong, you are right that muslims are not modernized in terms of science and modern knowldge. Yes, that is true, most of Islamic countries are uncivilized and not modernized too, but the reason for that is because they are far from Islam. All Islamic countries are thinking that western civilization can save them and help them to achieve progress in science and modernization, but it does not work!!!!!

The western civilization can not achieve balance between our spiritual needs and our material needs. May be the westerners do not care about spiritual needs, but for muslims, this balance is the cornerstone of life. When muslims knows again the value of the treasure among their hands - I mean the Quran-, you will find the islamic countries civilized and modernized. The light of civilization will go back to east. We respect western civilization, there is no doubt that this civilization introduced to the world great minds, like Newton, Gauss, Einstien, Faraday, Max Blank, Galilio, Lewis Pastor and more, but it could not make man happy, as its attitude towards religion was so hostile. Some great minds too denounced the existence of God, like Einstien. Civilization is like a bird, it must have two wings, spirit and matter, and both of them must get along. If matter overcome, our life will be so material and survival will only be for the fittest, and if spirit overcome, our life will be based on superstions and fables like Europe in middle ages.
The only civilization which achieved that balance is the islamic civilization.

I am so sorry to write such a long post, but that was the only way to display that topic.

Best wishes for you my friend.

NATO DISINFORMATION INC.

News flash! IGOR is really Daniela from the Yugo board!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"The leadership of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) conducts
secrete negotiations with Maskhadov behind the back of Russia."

How embarrasing for ex-KGB chief Higo de Put(a)in!
On a more serious note, I doubt if anything really gets past him. Secret negotiations are the basis of most of his policies. It was just behind the backs of the Russian people! - Perhaps now you can begin to understand how us Nato-dependents feel.;0)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IRANIAN CONTRADICTION

He said that the entire policy of Iran "with regard to all countries, including Russia, is built on the
basis of independence, mutual respect and non-interference in the internal affairs. One
principle of such foreign policy is "non-acceptance of any kind of terror and terrorism, state
terrorism in particular. One proof of this principle is our position towards the Chechen problem",
the Ambassador said. "Everybody has actually seen that, contrary to the pressure of the Islamic
world on Iran as co-chairman of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, we have declared
that the Chechen problem is an internal affair of Russia and outside interference is
inadmissible".


Simultaneously, Mr.Mehdi Safari said that Iran is certainly worried over the fate of the peaceful
Muslim population of Chechnya and he would like the Chechen problem to be resolved in favour
of peace very soon. He said that Iran is rendering humanitarian aide to the population of
Chechnya by air and overland routes via Georgia and Daghestan.

IGOR,

Wonderful(Swans), a perfect example of Marxist Analysys of the media- I'm impressed.
Now read up on theories of Press freedom in any media studies course book you care to mention, and we're talking!!!

Kim

ms. mary:

=koff=

if the 'great resurrexion' involves the return of
the russ page CREEPS and all that nasty _shite_
they wrapped themselves around....

[cue: "by the time i get to phoenix"]

see yiz

L'm

Add these three to the list

---

Chechen field commander Vakha Kaiduriyev has been detained by the federal forces in a forest outside the Ingush village of Dattykh.


The brothers Isa and Khasan Yevloyev, messengers who had been sought on suspicion of attacking a Russian convoy near Galashki in early May, were arrested as well, the press centre of the United Grouping of federal forces in the North Caucasus told Interfax on Wednesday.