I do support Kostunica,however I am worried about the pressure that will be put on him by Djinjic and company.They should let Serbs do what they have to do without outside interference otherwise same result as Russia under Yeltsin.

Is the German-Troops-In-Yugoslavia Dispatch Real?

www.tenc.net
[Emperor's Clothes]

On 10/12 we posted a dispatch from German "AP" in which German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer is quoted as calling for the German Army to permanently occupy Yugoslavia. Several people have raised the question: are we sure this dispatch is real? One gentleman wrote:

>

We're not competent to judge whether they're nuts, but the dispatch is authentic. It does indeed come from 'German AP'. Here's what happened and how we checked the authenticity:

1) A reader in Germany wrote us wondering why no Website critical of NATO had posted an 'AP' dispatch he'd found on the German language Yahoo Website. (Some people have written us that "AP doesn't have a German Website." Perhaps not, but 'AP' does have a German language service which issues dispatches and Yahoo does post these dispatches on its German language Website.)

The German reader translated part of the dispatch into English.

It was amazing. Could German Foreign Minister Fischer actually have said he wants to permanently station the German Army in Yugoslavia? Could he, a leader of the country has been trying to destroy Yugoslavia for a hundred years, and which committed and supported the worst atrocities in Yugoslavia during World War II - could he really have said that Yugoslavs need to learn democratic culture in order to relate to Germany? Was he aware that, when the Germans set up a puppet regime in Belgrade during World War II and demanded that the quislings round up the Jews, the quislings refused? Does Fischer know that the German commander then responded that the Serbs had "low culture"?

Could Fischer have actually said these things?

It did not seem unlikely that the German Foreign Ministry would want to permanently station troops in Yugoslavia. But could Fischer have been so reckless as to admit it publicly?

None of us at Emperor's Clothes were personally acquainted with the reader who sent us the email. We decided to investigate thoroughly before posting:

1) First we went to http://de.news.yahoo.com/4/ . That's the German Yahoo site where the reader said he found the article. Scrolling down to the phrase "Nachrichten suchen" which means "news search" , we typed in "Fischer will Jugoslawien mit Bundeswehr helfen" (Fischer wants German Army to help Yugoslavia) We clicked the usual button and were taken to the web address "http://de.news.yahoo.com/001011/12/14aun.html" This URL had the right title, ("Fischer will Jugoslawien mit Bundeswehr helfen"), but when we clicked on it we got the message "Seite nicht gefunden" or "Website not found". So the article had been there but now it was gone...

Curious. And also curious that the other links on the page worked fine. (Note: In case the link were to be removed entirely, we have made copies of the entire web page; if it is still there when you check you might want to do likewise.)

So now we knew the 'AP' dispatch existed but we couldn't be sure our German reader had sent us an accurate text. We contacted a writer for Emperor's Clothes who works for a German outfit that subscribes to 'German AP'. He found the dispatch. He did an impromptu phone translation. His translation matched what the German reader had sent us almost word for word and the meaning was identical. So now we had the actual dispatch, just as it been sent out by 'German AP'. That dispatch is posted at the end of this article.

Was the Fischer Story Suppressed? And Why?

This 'AP' dispatch is big news.

We subscribe to Lexis Nexis. It allows us to instantly scan thousands of English language and non-English language newspapers, TV news programs and wire services (not including 'German AP') We went to Lexis and typed in: Fischer and Bundeswehr or "German army" and Yugoslavia. There were no entries. Had no newspaper, TV news program, or wire service in the Western world picked up this highly newsworthy story?

We called people in Germany. None of them had seen the Fischer story in the German media.

'AP-Germany' is a self-contained entity but of course it is read by people from newspapers and news services around the world.

Why hasn't this sensational story been reported?

The only explanation we can think of is: it was suppressed.

Perhaps Fischer revealed a plan he was not supposed to reveal, a plan for German troops to be sent into Yugoslavia in the event that certain forces succeed in creating such instability and chaos that "a firm hand is needed." Perhaps after Fischer blabbed and 'German AP' erred by reporting his speech there was a hasty effort at damage control. This would explain the dispatch first being posted at German Yahoo and then apparently being pulled and it would explain the fact that newspapers and TV stations failed to report Fischer's remarks.

Taken alongside a slew of highly provocative and destabilizing actions by the Djindjic and Kostunica forces in Yugoslavia, this statement by Fischer, and the apparent suppression of the news reporting that he made this statement, are ominous.

Below is the exact text of the 'German AP' dispatch followed by the English translation.

German Text

The top part of the 'AP' dispatch gives the date and identifies the dispatch as coming from 'AP'. Following that the comes the category, "Bundestag/Jugoslawien/Fischer", which means "Parliament/Yugoslavia/Fischer" and then the headline. The text is the same as the English, which follows.

11.10. 17:29 ap 4

Bundestag/Jugoslawien/Fischer

Fischer will Jugoslawien mit Bundeswehr helfen

Utl: Demokratie als Voraussetzung für dauerhaften Frieden

Berlin (AP) Bundesaußenminister Joschka Fischer hat sich am Mittwoch im Bundestag dafür ausgesprochen, sich in Jugoslawien nicht nur materiell zu engagieren, sondern dauerhaft mit der Bundeswehr und mit zivilen Kräften vor Ort zu sein. Es biete sich nun die Chance, eine Demokratie in einem sich einigenden Europa zu schaffen. Das wiedervereinigte Deutschland habe eine besondere Verantwortung dazu beizutragen, dass sich die Demokratie in Serbien konsolidiere.

Demokratie sei Voraussetzung für einen dauerhaften Frieden auf dem Balkan.

Es sei richtig gewesen, der großserbischen Politik des jugoslawischen Präsidenten Slobodan Milosevic Einhalt zu gebieten und sich auf Seiten der demokratischen Opposition zu engagieren, sagte Fischer. Das blutige Morden auf dem Balkan könne nun ein Ende

haben. Der Stabilitätspakt müsse dafür eingesetzt werden, sich unter anderem an der Räumung der Donau zu beteiligen. Zudem solle eine demokratische Kultur aufgebaut werden, um die Beziehungen zwischen Deutschland und Serbien zu normalisieren. Erste Schritte seien durch die Aufhebung des Öl- und Flugembargos durch die EU gemacht worden.

So könne Serbien auf dem Weg nach Europa begleitet werden. Nach den Worten Fischers müssen diejenigen zur Rechenschaft gezogen werden, die schwerste Schuld auf sich geladen haben. Vorrang habe zunächst jedoch, dass die demokratischen Veränderungen friedlich durchgesetzt würden und sich Gerechtigkeit durchsetze. Der westliche Balkan sei Teil einer europäischen Gesamtverantwortung.

Ende

AP/str/rg

111728 okt 00

English translation

Fischer wants German Army to help Yugoslavia.

(Berlin), AP, Oct. 11, 2000

German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, addressing Parliament on Wednesday, expressed his opinion that Germany should not only provide material help to Yugoslavia but that the Bundeswehr [the German Army] and non-military organizations should establish a permanent presence there. He declared that this was a unique chance to create a democracy in the context of further European unification.

Reunited Germany has a special responsibility for stabilizing democracy in Serbia. Democracy, said Mr. Fischer, is the basis for a lasting peace in the Balkans. But the priority is for the moment that the democratic changes be carried out peacefully and that justice prevail. The Western Balkans is a part of the European comprehensive responsibility.

It was truly correct at the time to stop Slobodan Milosevich's policy of Greater Serbia and to engage oneself on the side of the democratic opposition, says Joschka Fischer. Now the bloody murdering in the Balkans can be stopped. The Stability Pact has to be used, among other things, for the clearing of the Danube. Also democratic culture has to be built up [in Serbia] to make possible the normalization of relations between Germany and Serbia. The first steps have been taken through the lifting of the oil and the flight embargoes by the European Union. Now Serbia can be accompanied on its route toward Europe. In the words of Fischer, all those who have made themselves guilty of grave crimes have to be brought to justice.

Yes , but wasn't Yeltsin in some ways responsible for that as well. Again Hats off to Putin.
Regarding the "Serbian opposition", isn't that coalition likely to weaken, with the prospect of the upcoming Serbian elections?
The next problem for Nato is the ethnic Albanians! And for Kostunica holding onto Kosovo. Neither side will give way easily, too much at stake!

---

Joshka Fisher! I find it unlikely that he would have said that. Could it be that it was removed because it was found to be a hoax? Why did emperors not contact Yahoo Deutschland to find out? Plus the wording used in German could as easily refer to a representative presence,as a large military contingent, it isn't clear.
Rest is jumping to conclusions.

Chorny,

I went to yahoo Deutschland and as they said the report they were refering to was not there. There is however an update of the report.

http://de.news.yahoo.com/001011/7/14ap0.html

Der westliche Balkan sei Teil einer europäischen Gesamtverantwortung, sagte Fischer. Diese Region müsse
herangeführt werden an das Europa der Integration und heraus aus dem Zeitalter des nationalistischen Hasses. Sie sei
nicht de jure Bestandteil des europäischen Einigungsprozesses, aber de facto. Die Region werde irgendwann auch an die
Europäische Union (EU) herangeführt. Eine dauerhafte Präsenz in der Region mit der Bundeswehr werde notwendig
sein.

Translation: The Western Balken is part of a the total European sphere of responsibility. This region should be encouraged into European unity and away from the age of nationalist hatred.
The Balkan is not included in the legal framework of the European unification process, but is still a de facto part (of Europe). However at some point the region would join the EU. An ongoing presence of the Bundeswehr will (then) be neccessary.

Kim.

How do they know that Serbia wants to join the EU?Is it Germany's wish that they do, and if they do not,will they be made to do so at the point of a gun?

Ah, Chorny,

I don't know, I'm just the translator.
Still part of the Franco-German Dream, I expect.
I expect that the not-so-well-off members of the EU will have some objections as well.
The EU doesn't work in Western Europe yet, not to even mention Poland, the Tchech Republic and Hungary. This is pure conjecture.
Who knows Serbia might join the Russian Federation????? Fisher- not exactly my favorite politician either.

Kim

What are scholars persecuted for in the West?
Revisionist historian Jurgen Graf was recently in Moscow
Russky Vestnik, No. 37-38, 2000
Translated from the Russian


Revisionist historians Graf and Mattogno

Webmaster-editor's note: Perhaps the most convincing evidence that a totalitarian 'iron curtain' has descended over the West is, in this observer's opinion, the strange case of the so-called 'revisionist' historians. These brave souls, for the most part representatives of academia in Europe, North America and elsewhere, are involved in the reexamination, using archival material, of certain events which occurred more than 50 years ago. One would think that such reexamination would be protected, even welcomed, in any state calling itself 'democratic' and espousing freedom of speech and freedom of conscience. However, in many such countries, from Canada to Switzerland, revisionists are persecuted, jailed, fined, dismissed from their jobs, and even physically attacked for the views they hold. Most important of all, they are prevented from publishing their findings.

The revisionists are usually referred to by their opponents as 'holocaust deniers'. But none of the revisionists deny that mass-deportations to concentration camps occurred during World War II. Nor do they deny that many, among them Jews, died in those camps. What the revisionists take issue with are the numbers, and the manner in which victims are said to have died, and they marshall an impressive array of physical and documentary evidence to support their viewpoint.

One leading revisionist historian, Jurgen Graf, was recently here in Moscow researching his latest book, where he was interviewed by the weekly newspaper Russky Vestnik.

At the beginning of May two Western historians, Jurgen Graf from Switzerland and Carlo Mattogno from Italy, were in Moscow. They represent the so-called revisionist school of scholarship, which on the basis of archival documents and other sources casts doubt on the Zionist claims that the Holocaust, as a result of which 6 million Jews allegedly perished, is the central event of World War II.

The history of the revisionist school in the West is the history of unending persecution and direct physical terror against its representatives. Jurgen Graf himself will be forced behind bars in October, 2000. Graf and his colleague spoke on this and other topics during the course of their visit with Russky Vestnik editorial board member Anatoly Mihailovich Ivanov.

Q: What were you sentenced for, and what lies ahead for you?

GRAF: I'll tell you a little secret: Swiss jails are practically like hotels. There'll be a television. Writing and the use of a computer are allowed. It's like a prison for 'petty misdemeanors'. During my confinement I plan to study Serbo-Croatian. The situation in Yugoslavia interests me greatly. I used to be against the Serbs, but now I support them.

Q: Why were you against the Serbs?

GRAF: That's our traditional position. Public opinion in Western Europe was always on the side of the Croats. One might say that this is a prejudice, because I never seriously studied Balkan history. It's obvious that the Serbs are victims of American imperialism and that Serbia is the only country in Europe which dared to resist those bandits.

Q: But to return to the first question: For what were you sentenced to prison?

GRAF: It's called 'inciting racial hatred'. If you take issue with the existence of the gas chambers, then according to our Western laws that's 'inciting racial hatred and discrimination'.

Q: In what countries do such laws exist?

GRAF: Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Spain, Belgium, and Poland. But in Poland the law isn't in force yet. It exists on paper, but it's led to no convictions yet. One person, Professor Rataicak from the University of Opol, was prosecuted, but later vindicated. He lost his job, but he won't have to go behind bars. Because he didn't manage to sell very many books.

Q: What are we to think of such laws, which prevent historians from researching certain issues?

GRAF: I'd call these laws totalitarian: They violate our Constitution, because the Constitution guarantees freedom to express one's opinion, freedom of speech. This is a problem. The Constitution 'guarantees' everything, promises everything: freedom of research, freedom of speech, but these freedoms exist only on paper as soon as you begin to criticize the 'New World Order'. And in Germany the situation is significantly worse than in Switzerland. In our country [Switzerland] this law was passed only 4 years ago, and there have been only around 50 trials.

Q: 50 trials in all of Europe?

GRAF: That's only in Switzerland. Of that number, eight were related to the Holocaust. But in Germany there have been hundreds of such [Holocaust-related] processes already.

Q: Why, in your opinion, were such laws passed?

GRAF: The reason is that the official historians are unable to answer our arguments. And we've been demanding a dialogue for a long time. What we want is a scholarly dialogue, without name-calling, without propaganda. If there are mistakes in our books, then they're obligated to point out those mistakes. But insamuch as official history can't refute us, they simply forbid our books and pass such laws.

Q: Given that such repressive measures are being used against you, would it be safe to say that the legal system, academia and other areas of public life in Switzerland and other countries are under Zionist control?

GRAF: Absolutely! But of course the majority of the population knows nothing about it. They tell you you're free because you can vote; you can choose between socialists, liberals and so forth and newspapers published by various parties are freely available. But all these official parties: socialists, liberals, conservatives and so forth differ very little from one another. Their politics are basically one and the same. For example, Austria's Haider has been heavily criticized. They call him a fascist. But did you know that Haider justifies the aggression against Yugoslavia and the embargo against Iraq? He even supported the anti-revisionist law in 1993. There's a 'real patriot' for you! One could say that Haider is the conservative wing of the ruling party in Austria. He's like our Blocher, Switzerland's leading conservative. Almost all patriots support him because they think he's a real patriotic leader. But he also came out in favor of the [anti-revisionist] law.

Q: Has Mattogno been subject to repression in Italy for his revisionist research into the Holocaust?

GRAF: They've left him alone. Because there are no such laws there yet. Freedom, like in Russia.

IVANOV: In Russky Vestnik we published a story about the De Meo trial, based on materials from the Italian press. He's a retired teacher who was accused of revisionism but vindicated.

Russky Vestnik also wrote about the trial of Mr. Amodruse, a very frail and elderly historian who was sentenced to prison and a large fine. His books were also destroyed, just like in Nazi Germany.

GRAF: That process lasted 3 days. In my opinion that was the most horrible political trial of all those which have occurred in our country. It was worse than my trial. And our little organization "Verite et Justice" plans to document the Amodruse case, as well as all other such cases.

We've already prepared documentation about the so-called 'Bergier Report'. This report, which was commissioned by the Swiss government, asserts that Switzerland was responsible for the Holocaust. Partially. Because our government didn't protest against the persecution of Jews during the war. Bergier is the leading historian of that school. He teaches history somewhere in Western Switzerland, if I'm not mistaken. He's one of the leading Masons in Switzerland, a member of the 'Alpina' lodge, a fact which he doesn't hide.

Our organization published a severe assessment of that report, because it's a pure falsification of history.

Q: What condition is the revisionist school in in Europe?

GRAF: There are very few 'pure' scholars. Propagandists are everywhere, but there are very few historians who approach the problem on the basis of scientific evidence.

This is our third trip to Moscow. Your archives contain a huge quantity of important documents. The books which we've written on Majdanek and Stutthof rely to a large degree on that material. And the big book which Carlo Mattogno is writing on the crematoria is illustrated with documents from your Russian archives.

Q: What sort of documents was Mr. Mattogno able to find in our archives?

MATTOGNO: Until the Moscow archives were opened to historians our work proceeded with great difficulty, because we relied on the statements of witnesses and documents on some of the concentration camps were hard to come by. Now the situation has improved significantly. In fact one could say that that purely scientific research on the German concentration camps began only after the opening of the Russian archives. This goes not only for us but for our opponents as well, who also use these documents. One example: Before our first trip to Moscow my private archive contained 500 original German documents relating to Auschwitz. Now I have more that 10,000 copies of original German documents in my possession. Here there are great possibilities for scientific work.

Q: Isn't there a danger that if you talk about the existence of such documents in the archives in Moscow, they'll stop letting people in, and someone might destroy the documents?

MATTOGNO: That's doubtful, but the archives might sell documents to Jewish organizations. For example, a large part of the documents relating to Masonry in the Special Archive were bought by French Masons and taken out of the country.

Q: And they were sold illegally, in violation of Russian law...

Now, during the 55th anniversary of the victory over Germany, they've been making a big deal of the 6 million Jewish victims. In Auschwitz there was once a memorial plaque claiming that 4 million died there, for the most part Jews. But now our TV commentators are telling us that 2.5 million died at Auschwitz. What happened to the other 1.5 million?

GRAF: I'd like to mention that the official figure in Poland is now 1,200,000. Mattogno, who is relying strictly on German documents, is in agreement with that figure.

Q: Is that figure just for Jews, or is that for all victims in Auschwitz?

MATTOGNO: That's for all victims, and it's my belief that roughly half of them were Jews.

Q: What was the fate of those prisoners who passed through Auschwitz, but were not registered there?

MATTOGNO: Many prisoners were sent on to camps in the Baltic States, and the Germans registered them there. We don't know the exact figure, but it's around 600,000. I'd like to add that according to the official story all of these prisoners were killed in gas chambers immediately upon arrival at Auschwitz. But we know better, of course.

As far as the '4 million' figure is concerned: that number contradicts even the statements of witnesses. That was the conclusion of the Soviet commission after the liberation of the camp, which relies on supposed capacity of the crematoria. Not on the real capacity, of course, because the Soviet commission exaggerated their capacity by 10 to 12 times. Then the commission multiplied their figure by the number of days the camp was in existence, and on that basis is was decided that 4 million had died there. Two weeks later the commission began interrogating former camp prisoners, and strangely enough all of them repeated the figure of 4 million. Thus that number became accepted as official. I must add that not one serious historian in the West now takes the 4 million figure seriously. For example, Hilberg asserts in his work that 1 million Jews and 300,000 non-Jews died at Auschwitz.

IVANOV: I translated materials about the Ernst Zundel trial in Canada. That was a ground-breaking trial.

GRAF: That trial was a huge catastrophe for Hilberg. He was exposed there.

IVANOV: Yes, and Professor Faurisson wrote: "I have witnessed the death of the Holocaust myth."

GRAF: A word about Hilberg, who is undoubtedly the main specialist among our opponents. One year ago I published a book about him and the Holocaust entitled A Colossus on Clay Feet, where I demonstrate what kind of deceptive methods Hilberg uses. Regarding, for example, the the number of victims in so-called 'death camps' he uses figures without citing any source, figures which are backed up by nothing. He simply makes his claims, and that's it. In most of the remainder of his work, on the other hand, where he deals with persecutions of Jews and deportations, he uses documentary evidence. But when he speaks of the gas chambers he relies exclusively on statements of witnesses. Of course this is not a valid historical method, because every serious historian knows that documents are more important than witnesses.

Q: This is the 55th anniversary of the victory over Germany. Do you agree that heaviest burden in the struggle against fascism was carried by Russia, in the form of the Soviet Union, and by Russian soldiers? Russia's combined losses in the war were around 26 million. It's well known that in the West very little is said about these losses, and few know about them. But everyone knows about the '6 million' Jews, who are mentioned constantly. Do you think that Russians have the right to be indignant and feel offended by that?

GRAF: That's a very good question. When we were working in the archives, Carlo said to me: "Here's a list of prisoners who died in the camps. There are only Russians, Poles and Germans here. No one's interested in that. No one says anything about the dead Russians, Poles and Germans. Our politicians are only interested in the Jews. Everyone talks about the dead Jews, but the dead of other nationalities seem to interest no one. This is unjust, a pure falsification of history. Because other nations suffered no less than the Jews, even more." In my opinion the Russian and German people suffered more than the Jews.

A few words about that horrible war: In my opinion, Hitler's biggest mistake was to attack the Soviet Union. That was a huge tragedy for all nations, not just Russians and Germans. Because our real enemy is not located in Moscow and never has been. Though I'm an anticommunist, I consider the main evildoer of that epoch to be not Stalin, not communism, but the Americans. Roosevelt. Hitler was simply obligated to come to a mutual understanding with Russia. As it turned out, the winners in that war were, above all, America and Zionism.

IVANOV: It's my belief that Hitler actually did come to a mutual understanding with Stalin and the leadership of the USSR. A pact was concluded. But the Western democracies in France, England and the US directed Hitler's aggression against the Soviet Union on purpose, in order to decimate and exhaust both sides... When Mr. Zundel came here he said that the main problem [here] is not with the Holocaust, which most in Russia correctly understand. But many on the German right, and I include Mr. Zundel in their number, support the theory advanced by so-called Viktor Suvorov (Vladimir Rezun) in his book "Icebreaker", that Hitler was not to blame for attacking Russia because Russia intended to attack Hitler, who launched a 'preventive war' in self-defense.

The conditional mood is of little value in history: "What would have happened if..." and so on and so forth. The fact remains that Hitler's Germany attacked Russia and the peoples of Russia (of Russian nationality for the most part) suffered 26 millions in losses. That's the main thing. You can say what you want, but Hitler gave in to poor advice and attacked Russia. That's history.

GRAF: In 1944 it seems that Hitler realized his mistake, but by then it was too late.

Q: Are there film materials in the archives where you're doing your research?

MATTOGNO: You've touched on an important issue, because we've been searching for a long time for Soviet aerial photographs. To date we know only of 50 American aerial photos, and we hope that there are ones like them in the Russian archives as well. It's highly unlikely that the Soviet army would have planned a major advance without reconnaisance photographs. In 1944 that task would have been much easier for Soviet aviation that for the Americans, because the nearest American bases were in Southern Italy.

And one more aspect: We know that the Soviet authorities hid many documents after the war because they contradicted the official version of events. One important example is the "Auschwitz Death Books". These books were discovered in Russia only in 1999; nothing was known about them before then. That means they were purposely hidden by the authorities. And we surmise that there are many more documents like that. For example, we have no documents about Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor: the so-called 'eastern death camps'. But it's impossible that the Germans produced no documentation about them. We think that the Soviet authorities searched out these documents and hid them.

In Russia there must be super-secret archives which are unknown to us. For political reasons they're off-limits for the time being. One day they may serve as a powerful political weapon, which a future nationally-oriented government in Russia, of which we dream, will use.

Q: And for that reason they're preventing the emergence of a nationally-oriented regime in Moscow?

GRAF: That's one of the main reasons. But we hope that Putin will be a real Russian patriot.

Russky Vestnik is an Orthodox Christian weekly published in Moscow.

---

For more revisionist reading, see:
Institute for Historical Review
Committee for the Open Debate of the Holocaust
L'Association des Anciens Amateurs de Recits de Guerre et d'Holocauste
The Zundelsite

What's this? an actuall discussion. lol

a lot of cut&paste though. thats kind of dissapointing. I expect a good summary of the article with a link attached.

THAT COW SVINKA IS ON THERE AGAIN WITH THE SAME SHITE MAKES ME FUUCKING SICK THE FAT FUUCKING COW

Dima dai mne tvoe email i ya tebe otvechy na boproc.I do not feel like discussing my opinions over there

"The revisionists are usually referred to by their opponents as 'holocaust deniers'. But none of the
revisionists deny that mass-deportations to concentration camps occurred during World War II.
Nor do they deny that many, among them Jews, died in those camps. What the revisionists take
issue with are the numbers, and the manner in which victims are said to have died, and they
marshall an impressive array of physical and documentary evidence to support their viewpoint."

This is simply not true, you only have to visit the Serbia Cafe to know that!
Why is it so important to revise the figures anyway? People died in horrendous ways and people just died. It was the ultimate war. What is the effing agenda with all this revisionism and anti-jewish crap? Can someone help me out, here. I fail to understand it!

I think that Russians lost just as many in camps as did other east Europeans as well but some how they have been forgotten.My parents were in the camps and cannot claim compenstion well my dad anyway.My mother gets$19 a month in compensation.My dad was in a labour camp and they told him he did not pay taxes therefore no money,to which he said he did not even get paid for the 18 hours a day that he had to work as an 13 year old.Why single out the Jews as the only victims there were plenty of them of other nationalities.

There goes kim again calling everyones opinions crap.

there is this parking garage in Zuric right besides the Versace store in the old city. damn thing closes at 11.00 pm even if there are cars in there! so there Iam stuck in the middle of Zuric in the middle of the night with no car. so what happens, I leave it. this was 2 years ago!!!

I just get a bill forwarded from that same garage telling me to come and pick it up and pay the 36,400 franc parking fee.

Can u believe the car is still there after 2 years! this is too funny.
So if anybody wants a dark blue S4 Quattro, with about 270 Horses under the hood, just go pay the parking fee and it's yours. let me know if anyone is interested - I ll get my lawyer in Zuric who has a power of attorny to arrange things.

LOL

Kim something for you to ponder over .Whem WW 2 is mentioned what is the first thing that comes to your mind.A__holocaust 6000000Jews__correct?To me it means 25000000 million dead Russians.In the holocaust is it ever mentioned how many Russians were in the camps A__ don't know__ correct.Was the war in Russia a sunday picnic.No it was a holocaust on Russian people .Do the math and ask yourself why are all the 25000000 Russians forgotten,if it was not for us you would not be here today.Did you ever see the devastation that was done to Russia during WW2 .Ponder on this before you answer.

Chorney,

What about the British and Australian POW's held by the Japenese. Japan won't even apologise for that.I don't know why your government never acted on behalf of those who suffered in the War. Perhaps the Communists were too busy with their own purges to care. Perhaps the cold war is the reason the Russians never received the recognition, they should have for their suffering.
What I don't understand is why you should have to persecute one group in order to have the other group recognised.